Fools Rush In..... To Buy Dreck

Hi Dan,
I apologize if I come across as a 'negative Nancy' regarding ebay; that is not my intent.

My intent is to help educated newer hobbyists to become better informed buyers. Forums like this one get a very large number of lurkers, far exceeding those of us who post, and I suspect that many are less experienced hobbyists. I also receive feedback from Stamp Smarter users who have been demoralized by feeling like they have been ripped off. And just as you might get frustrated with the ' ebay sucks' threads I get similarly frustrated with the 'found an undisclosed rarity' threads.

Consider how many threads we have here where we all recommended people to use auction houses; yet not one thread ever mentioned any of the risks of consignment (until too late). The APS website avoids any mention of ebay and Linn's also seems to rather not mention the pitfalls. For me, it often feels like the only place which outlines the drawbacks of buying stamps online from unknown sellers is on the various forums.
Don

Hi Don,

That wasn't directed at you, just the seeming overall tenor here as of late (perception mine).

I get your intent, and it is laudible, but putting caveats, disclaimers, cautions, and warnings in every thread discussing ebay, targeted to an audience of unknowns isn't the way I personally would handle it; the cure is worse than the disease IMO.

If every time someone decides to post about a great ebay find someone else comes in with cautions and warnings, it creates the inaccurate impression that ebay is something for people to avoid. It also puts a damper on the conversation.

It may not be your intent to create that atmosphere, but too many warnings and cautions is just as bad as none at all.

As I mentioned in a previous email to you, in my opinion focusing the character of the discussion here not towards active membership, which tend to be more experienced collectors, but rather towards invisible unknown lurkers that you presume to be newbies, changes the nature of this forum, and not in a good way, in my opinion. It becomes overly regulated.

As protective of the masses as we might wish to be, at some point the responsibility for collecting and buying decions and sufficient use of caution and caveat emptor resides with the collector.

That's just my opinion. As moderator, it's your policies/preferences that matter.

-Dan

Understood, I would never impose this kind of rule, all civil discussion and opinions are permitted. I also try to limit my own opinion although at times I do vent a bit. What I was recommending the other day was not some a warning in every thread but something much more subtle. For example, simply mentioning that you have years of experience and considerable computer skills when also mentioning a 'find'. (To be honest, I think that you do this most of the time but some others do not.) Another example (not you) is trying to use the words 'It is my opinion' in some posts instead of having an opinion come across like it is being stated as factual.

In terms of the target audience of this forum, it will be whatever it will be. No one is trying to mold it into something it is not. But we all do need to be aware that these posts might out live us for years to come.

As such, we would not like to see a bunch of misinformation being communicated. For the most part, this issue takes care of itself when folks reply to incorrect information. There are times when we are asked to intervene and address some incorrect information.
Don

IMHO, one of the great assets of this forum is the opportunity to share and explore differing opinions. I certainly understand the frustration of many with the pitfalls of ebay (or any other online non-philatelic-only sale site). It would be foolish for anyone to rush into ebay purchases without caution and an understanding that the seller may be ignorant or unethical.

However, I also understand and appreciate revenuecollector's (Dan's) perspective and comments. There have been a lot of forum threads recently about unhappiness with sellers, ebay, or the perceived direction of our hobby. The vast majority of shared views here seem to be quite negative on the soundness of all the above. But sometimes the good parts get tossed out with the rest.

For example, being a younger collector, I can guarantee that I would not have come back to the hobby if not for ebay. And although some may forever turn away from the hobby due to being burned by ebay purchases, I question whether ebay is "bad" for our hobby. It is about access. ebay provides an enormous number of people the opportunity to get into stamps, an opportunity they would not otherwise have. Gone are the days when you could easily find a dealer shop to walk into (I live in a major city and we have not a single one). People just aren't going to say, "stamps...hmm...I wonder what that about. Maybe I'd like collecting them" and then spend time and effort hunting down a stamp club or traveling to a show. I suspect in the coming years, online commerce sites like ebay will be the gateway for most new stamp collectors.

I also want to point out that even auction houses (and dealers) are sometimes suspect. On stampauctionnetwork.com, I have seen horrendously erroneous listings--some as bad as those we mock on Ebay--and even the high end auction houses are not immune from mistakes. This is not to say that purchasing from Kelleher or Seigel is the same as Ebay--far from it; but caution should be used regardless of the platform, in direct proportion to the alleged value of the item being purchased.

In the end for me, however, the beauty of ebay is about access. Access to garbage...yes. But also access to wonderful stamps many would not otherwise be able to touch or own.

Always great to see varied opinions here. Yes, I hate seeing bad vendors on ebay take advantage of those who don't do their homework, or are new and don't even know where to begin.

But for every thread that is out there showing a "laugher" on ebay, there are other listings that can be taken advantage of...and that includes some of the dealers that we keep hearing about in these posts. (You should see the purchase I made but never posted from Anthony's....)

So for the record, I'm a self-proclaimed "bottom feeder", and will use ebay and every other online venue I can to take advantage of anyone I can....and that's a beautiful thing when it happens-- the seller is pleased, and I'm a LOT more pleased!

Ray

There's a lot of angry denouncing of stamp sellers that goes on here. I clicked the link OP provided, and it went in each case to ebay were I found perfectly legitimate stamps for sale. What's the problem? If you will link to specific fake, altered, or incorrect stamp listings it would be far more useful than a blanket denunciation of sellers you don't like. How can a hobby make so many people so angry, sometimes over very little?

ebay is packed full of schlock. No way around it.

Ye olde saying "One man's trash is another man's treasure". I haven't seen any form of philatelic venue where this did not apply (hence why I go to them). And like ray.mac I'm a "bottom feeder" as well, but I've done very well with it and buyers are very pleased.

Here is an example of an obvious and "egregious" error from a (at least my impression) well reputed auction house. They listed this #24 as a #21. This is the type of listing that if it was on ebay gets roasted here. I am not trying to defend ebay, but especially new collectors reading threads on this forum may get the impression to stay away from ebay and buy freely from auction houses. But reality is that caution should be used regardless of the selling source if the stamp in question is expensive.

P.s. I've notified the seller

Great post. Way to go. It would be even better if you gave us the who?

I was very recently potentially denied a win because of a description that I knew for an absolute fact to be slightly less than accurate or shall we say, honest. I won't ever forget it either.

Edit: Unfortunately, I cannot say which auction house it was.

This stamp was on the Michael Aldrich auction on stampauctionnetwork. They already replied and appreciated the notification.

Lot#116

Uh huh... sure. See the post I made earlier today about Aldrich. I bet the lot doesn't get pulled.

Ain't that the truth! I have made unbelievable purchases on ebay over the years. They are the highlights of my collection. One of a kind previously unknown items. Anybody can cough up the big bucks for a stamp or cover. Much more satisfaction in finding that needle in the haystack. The item that everyone overlooked or didn't take the time to investigate.

Revenuecollector--I noted they did not share their plan for the lot. I was going to go back later and see if it was still there.