Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read








Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

One Very Confusing Certificate Description

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 3,702Next Topic
Page: of 2
Rest in Peace
United States
1738 Posts
Posted 12/11/2017   9:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add James Drummond to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I came across this Philatelic Foundation certificate tonight.

Someone thought that they had an imperforate variety of RJA45b, and submitted it as "RJA45var."

This three cent narcotic stamp is only known rouletted, on watermarked and unwatermarked paper.

Scott has assigned these two stamps as RJA45b and RJA78b.

The imperforate narcotic strip stamps have an "a" after their number.

See if you can see why the description is so confusing (at least to me).

Jim

Send note to Staff

Pillar Of The Community
United States
867 Posts
Posted 12/11/2017   10:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
With this example as a guide, can we imagine someone submitting an "imperf" 4˘ first issue playing card as an R17 var. and getting a certificate back with a similar description "It is not Scott R17 variety rather it is a faulty Scott R17a with perforations trimmed away."
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Ron Lesher
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10594 Posts
Posted 12/11/2017   11:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
People who write certs are human. Clearly someone just put an (a) instead of a (b) by accident and it did not get caught. Perhaps the submitter can be reached so it can get corrected.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
791 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   06:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 1typesetter to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I was the one who submitted it and when it was returned to me my first thought was Huh?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10594 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   08:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I let the PF know about it. Why not just send it back and request the correction?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10594 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   08:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For that matter, if you were confused, why not call and ask?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
791 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   08:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 1typesetter to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To be honest, I just thought to heck with it. It's not an RJA45a anyway so it just went into my bad cert file.
Also, I was thinking at the time that if it were a trimmed roulette, the margins would be smaller. Considering the spacing between the stamps, if it were trimmed I would think the margins wouldn't be this large.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10594 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   08:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Those stamps can come large.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10594 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   08:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are clear indications of roulettes at the top in any case.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
6326 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   08:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have always been puzzled by the certificate wordings which include what the submitter claimed it to be. Why? It's not relevant. What if the submitter had claimed this was a Scott #1? Would the cert read "Not Scott 1, but Scott RJA45 instead" Quite silly. The certificate should state what the stamp IS, and not what it ISN'T.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10594 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   09:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Certs always state what the stamp was submitted as. If it turns out not to be that stamp, that is stated as well. This makes for both a complete record and the possibility of doing comparisons to other stamps submitted as the same number.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
6326 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   09:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps so, but then the phrasing would be improved by reversing the order to state what the stamp IS first, then state the original mistaken claim. I would much prefer to see: "We are of the opinion that it is a faulty RJA45a with roulettes trimmed away, rather than RJA45 variety as submitted." Still, they would look silly if I sent in a similar stamp claiming it to be a Scott #1 and they had to put that on this certificate. Common sense and clarity should prevail.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10594 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   09:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's not A but is B seems pretty clear.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
6326 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   10:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Suit yourself, but it is a very poor communication style.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10594 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   10:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If you say so. I have never had a problem with it. It clearly states what it was submitted as and what it actually is.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6430 Posts
Posted 12/12/2017   10:25 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not all certs are written with that much clarity. I've done a double-take and had to re-read certs multiple times. I think the PF has gotten better with their wording in recent years, beginning negative opinions with "It is not..." That wasn't always the case.

For example, see this 1986 PF cert below. IMO, it would be better written as "It is not R3a, but instead an R3d with perforations trimmed."

The word "genuine" in the opinion is meaningless and potential misdirection. Yes, the big honking handstamp makes it clear it is a negative opinion.

During certain periods not as much care was taken in the clarity of the opinion language.





Here is another one. A negative opinion that begins "It is a genuine..."

http://pfsearch.org/pfsearch/pf_grd...lledfrom=lkp
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by revenuecollector - 12/12/2017 10:35 am
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 3,702Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Go to Top of Page

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2026 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.33 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05