314A ? ~ What Say You...

Revcollector...you may not realize this but there was a viable market for stamps in 1907. If one had a super jumbo # 303 with 4 huge well balanced margins the stamp would command a price of at least $50. So everyone is dismissing this fact!

It is tough to imagine anyone being stupid enough to destroy a $50 stamp in order to generate a 4 cent coil before coil stamps were issued. I know you all want to feel the experts really are on top of their game but until someone can explain 2 things:
* the $50 question
* does a super jumbo stamp with 4 large margins exist
I will take the logical position that the experts are avoiding the issue. Easy answer for them is it was trimmed...this puts them at zero risk. When PF blew the Orangeburg coil issue it is rumored to have cost them mega bucks.

srailkb: to have government perfs like those on a # 303 they need to line up. If you look at the examples put on this forum one can easily see the top 3 perfs do not line up. By the way, since everyone seems to feel the experts are right one has to question why Kent Wilson, an APS expert, stated that there were private(non government perfs) and the stamp wasn't trimmed.

For reference Trepel & Lawrence got together to show a digital projection of my stamp & a large #303 where they finally found a stamp large enough to be trimmed. The projection showed the top 3 perfs on the left side did not line up. I wonder if Lawrence was involved in getting Chad Snee to change the Scott Catalog dealing ewith this stamp? Reference: Nov 2017 Pa. Postal Historian

Please post a high resolution scan.

"...to have government perfs like those on a # 303 they need to line up."

What do you mean? I suppose perfs on a Scott 303 could "line up" by some random chance, but they usually don't. In fact, perfs that "line up" are often fake ("lined up" perfs are one of the many ways to spot fake flat plate W/F coils made from imperforate stock.) Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?

608K;

In the immortal words of Terri Nunn, lead singer of Berlin, "No More Words".

Stop speaking/typing until you post a pic.

Simple like that.

Please post the (&^%)#&@^#@)(#*@()#&^&$&(*^@(# scan or go away and quit wasting everybody's time, so we can focus on the next delusional poster.

Thank you ever so much.

I took the image of the 303 posted earlier and resized it to match the design dimensions of the item in question. I then lined the perfs up.

This is (IMO, no doubt) a trimmed 303, not a privately perforated stamp. These are typical gauge 12 perfs from the regularly-issued stamps, and they line up almost exactly. Here's my quick graphical manipulation.



To me, this answers the question of what this is (an altered 303) pretty conclusively.

Where is this $50 figure coming from? That is a huge amount in today's dollars, and is also exceedingly arbitrary.

Then again, since you won't provide even a high-resolution image of this item, I somehow doubt you'll provide any supporting evidence of this magical $50 claim.

P.S. I have some very ultra-rare baby blue R21, R22, and R84 1st-issue revenues that were delivered to me by purple-winged fairies. $10,000 each. I don't need to prove that they were delivered by purple-winged fairies; the rest of you have to prove that they weren't. NYAH!

Do we even have evidence of use in 1907? The digits 1 (5 inverted) 0 7 look like a post office code as part of a duplex hammer cancel, not a year date.

This thread has become the proverbial motorway car accident. Until 680K posts a scan of the whole piece or cover, and one of the stamp, there's utterly nothing to see here, yet we can't look away.

"Revcollector...you may not realize this but there was a viable market for stamps in 1907. If one had a super jumbo # 303 with 4 huge well balanced margins the stamp would command a price of at least $50. So everyone is dismissing this fact!"

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
You made a funny.

If one had a super jumbo # 303 with 4 huge well balanced margins the stamp would command a price of at least $50. So everyone is dismissing this fact!

You haven't presented this "fact" such that that it may be dismissed. Show us a $50 jumbo #303 or similar common stamp that fetched anything above $1 circa 1907 and then let's talk.

Now, find a jumbo #303 with a natural straight edge at top and see if it's even sale-able. Because the important fact YOU keep dismissing s that yours has a SE at top.

In essence the experts are claiming that some forger in 1907 took a super jumbo stamp that he found worth about $50 in 1907 dollars, promptly destroyed it to make a fake coil 3 years before coil stamps were accepted by the philatelic community as collectible stamps. This is a bit of a stretch

There's no essence to it, only your stubbornness. The experts are claiming explicitly that your stamp has 12-gauge government perforations, as are most all of the posters here. So, no need for jumbo margins and thus for your incredulity. Again, it's on you to prove the perfs are private in origin, for which a detailed scan would go a long way. Challenging doubters to find a jumbo stamp is a red herring.

I CAN'T STOP READING THIS THREAD

Just thought you might want to know that $50 in 1907 is equivalent to $1,246.01 today.*

The average worker in 1907 made between $200 and $400 per year.**

To seriously suggest that someone back then spent around four times their annual wage on one giant, well-centered, but common four cent postage stamp is... baffling.

It's pretty safe to say that if this $50 value "fact" is a substantial component of the argument, then the entire argument is invalid.

Jim

p.s.


Google: "Kiri-kin-tha"


*Source: http://www.in2013dollars.com/1907-d...17?amount=50

**Source: http://www.city-data.com/forum/othe...-1907-a.html

Well now it seems that it is, in fact, starting to become a waste of time.

Still fascinating, but only due to 608's increasing level of absurdity in the face of overwhelming consensus.

Yes, we should ban the phrase 'what say you' forever!

**

608:

Your latest circular argument hinges on this '1907' premise - that no sane person would've done this in 1907.

(Thanks cjPalermo1964!)

We have no proof this 'piece' was from 1907. It could've been 'created' in 1910. Or 1912. Based on the way the cancel appears on the stamp & the 'piece' - it seems to me it could've been created 6 months ago! Someone found a 'piece' with a similar cancel to their 303, trimmed it, and lined it up (badly!?!) on the piece.

(also thanks srailkb! If you get tired of your day job, you have a career as a graphic artist / photo manipulator!)

Your stamp is perf 12. That is as plain as day. Very few early 20th cent stamps had 100% perfect perfs - which is precisely why - during that time period - they kept changing/experimenting with different perf gauges etc.

If you listed your stamp on ebay for $0.99, I wouldn't bid. It wouldn't be worth the postage.

You're trying to claim this is one of the rarest stamps of all time, and I suspect would want more than $0.99 for it. We can count the existing examples - especially used on cover - with our fingers.

Your monthly safety deposit box fee is more than this 'piece' is worth. Take it out of the bank & scan it - as everyone has requested.

Put up or shut up time...

There is a small problem with the Lawrence/APS straight edge opinion about the top edge. PF states that it was trimmed on top & bottom. If you read Lawrence's Linn's article he mentions Belasco stating that best forged Schermack coils were produced from straight edge copies. Interesting that Lawrence did not see the indents on the top maybe the PF has a magnifying glass.

James Drummond: You are correct...no sane person would spend $50 on a stamp in 1907 & then destroy it to make a cheap coil. The calculation showing $50 is equivalent to $1100 today is interesting since Scott's Specialized has the price today slightly higher. Could it be that the coil was produced on one of the 6 test machines by the post office in October 1907?

Everyone is making these pronouncements that the coil is a trimmed # 303...one needs 4 well balanced margins to accomplish this.

I have no interest in wasting my time to provide a scan of the stamp.

Why?

Seems like a lot of issues would go away if you did.

Jim