Anthony's Llc Dismal PF Report Card = Follow Up To 10/23/17 Discussion

One of the things that gets lost in these exposures of dodgy sellers is that ebay really is a great place to buy stamps for your collection. 98% of the material on ebay is pretty common stuff that collectors like myself purchase for little money and the stamps are worth little money. If I'm looking for a well centered never hinged prexie I can find tons for cheap.

Sure, if your looking for one of the orangeburg coils well you might want to tread lightly. I almost start to lose pity on buyers that take these long shots that don't pay off and now it's a terrible place to buy stamps from.

Steps to take;

Do your research on the seller
Do your research on the item you want to purchase
IF it's a scarce stamp and the seller has no cert are they willing to pay for one?
Did the seller provide good high resolution scans of front and back?
Do you know what you're doing?

ebay really isn't the place to buy the top 2% of material. That's what auction firms with long standing relationships with good buyers handle. IF you stick to the basics then ebay is ok. IF you think that you've found the ruby in the mountain of rocks then don't be too disappointed that your shot at the lottery didn't hit.

Who's description of a stamp would you trust more, Scott Troepel or seller jmcdr0pd47643527 ?

You aren't the on;y one to have said that in various discussions on this forum.

stallzer,
I agree with your premise; if a hobbyist is buying common, worldwide stamps then they can make less informed buying decisions from unknown sellers without much risk. Those at risk are hobbyists who are trying to transition from common stamps to uncommon stamps. From the emails that I get, those being the taken the are intermediate collectors who are trying to fill the holes in their collections and spending higher amounts of money per item.

In the last few days I have spent more time looking at the ASDA website and trying to understand what it means when I see the ASDA dealer logo. After reading this article "Why in the world would you do business with an ASDA Dealer? (James E. Lee) https://www.americanstampdealer.com....aspx?id=269 I am more confused because I do not understand how the things in the article apply in this online age. In the 'olden' age, I counted on my local dealer for education. He was a brick and mortar stamp dealer who was interested in building long term customers and did many of the things mentioned in the ASDA article. He nurtured hobbyists as they evolved into the more advance aspects of our hobby and actively educated them on how to make informed buying decisions. For example, he would pull out and demonstrate the difference in condition between a $10 stamp and a $100 stamp of the same catalog number. But what we have today are online sellers who are peddling that $10 stamp as a $100 stamp and uninformed buyers falling for it. And of course the vast majority of online sellers are not ASDA members and are not a dealer in any sense of the word.

So I think the issues arise when more intermediate level collectors try to buy from the ocean of listings. If you are simply taking your kid to the local fishing hole and enjoying the day, you will probably do fine. But if you are planning a big trip, renting a boat, and going after more serious fish; then you are at risk. And like fishermen who have blown a lot of money on a trip only to come up empty, we often don't hear much from them. I appreciate that the original poster (YOP) was willing to step forward and relate his experiences. And I appreciate that we have quality dealers like Clark, Ken, Eric, Dan and others who try to fulfill the ASDA objectives. Unfortunately it still takes 'special knowledge' to find a quality seller in our hobby when this should be a simple and easy task. And unfortunately this also means that we have little to counter our own greed and egos so a large percentage of us remain venerable to being ripped off.
Don

cfrphoto, thanks for the clarification on the licensing deal with ebay and ASDA. Sounds like a global commercial deal from two non-stamp hobby caring (IMHO) corporations. It is effectively meanless marketing as stated by many in the know here.

You seem to interchange ASDA and APS which I think oversimplifies.

Just like PSE vs PF there is a HUGE difference I have now come to appreciate! ASDA and similarly PSE are for-profit corporations that are not well run IMHO and a bottom line focused to a falt.

Organizations that allowing "Sharpshooting", "altering stamps" and "obscuring quality" for a profit at the expense of the hobby is wrong and lacks a true respect for this hobby.

Now APS and PF are longstanding 503(c) organizations that file public reports with the IRS and are supported in part by public donation. Both these organizations have the hobby at the heart of their mission, not a short-term ill got profit (or the case of Anthony's LLC a long-term programmatic public hobby denigrating profit).

Moving forward 2018 on, I'm only dealing with APS dealer because that pledge to ethical standards (no toleration for counterfeiting and BAD mis reps, never mind bogus disclosure).

Do you mean APS (American Philatelic Society)? I am just asking since you posted ASP more than once.

BTW, if you are buying higher value stamps get a cert. APS dealer membership may add confidence but they are still human.

Sorry for my many typos in my posts, never a strong suit of mine.......I see ASDA has typos too on their website so i'm on par with them in my typing skills...kinda sucky

Clark is, as usual, on the money.

I am an online dealer. My APS dealer membership is pending. I haven't put in my ASDA membership yet, in part because it's 10 times the price, and in part because ASDA has been slow to adjust to, much less embrace, online dealers. The ASDA logo agreement with ebay was a bit step.

I agree with Clark that the ASDA logo is still a net benefit, but nothing can save a buyer from themselves in the end. ASDA protections only work if a buyer knows to take advantage of them. A good dealer will teach you - either in person or in a description.

When a collector gets to the next level beyond the basic lower CV stamps, they need to set a dollar threshold of potential loss beyond which they require a certificate for an item. Those types of ebay items fall into two general categories:

1) Higher value stamps without a cert sold or started at a very low percentage of CV

2) Higher value stamps with a cert that are listed or started at a value equal or greater than what a traditinal stamp shop would ask

There are anomalies but most items on ebay fall within these two groups. If the item is a higher value stamp without a cert they need to ask themselves why the seller did not get a cert and thus have a more desirable item and in turn set a higher asking price. If the item has a cert and is priced accordingly they have to ask themselves why pay the same or, in many cases, more to an ebay seller rather than a real stamp dealer or auction house.

There are good dealers on ebay. Rupp Brothers comes to mind. The problem always seems to rotate back to bad sellers being protected by ebay turning a blind eye to their activities. Such was the case here when ebay removed the feedback of YoP. For me that is the second most egregious thing that happened in this story. The first was Anthony's fraud.

angore

Typos aside,I'm finding APS dealers to be very agreeable to a certs.

90 day PF extension - promise no hidden faults and arrow block will be 100% NH. Otherwise full refund plus up to 20%(max $100) cert reimbursement.

Now just checking his standing at APS and we already have a best price agreed to via best offer.

Better path now .no more.bottom-fishing on ebay!

YoP - Are you still using ebay even though they took down your feedback? Just curious.

Yes still using ebay for smarter more careful purchases but still have a one year no auction bottom fishing moratorium for 2018. I'm on the fence for ebay and I'm not stopping collecting just because I messed up and trusted Anthony's, ebay, ADSA, and the American commercial system.....welcome to 2018!

The excitement/rush from "scoring" a "rare" stamp (yes suspending reality!) was compulsive on my part. I would have been way better served by having been looking RIGHT HERE in July 2017 re: the Anthony 315 conversation!

I completely agree Don. One of the issues of collecting the "better" United States material whether it be the 1851 - 1861 1¢, W/F coils, or Banknotes a buyer really needs to do their research. If I'm going to buy a new coffee maker I read the reviews.

There will never be a time in my life where everything on ebay will be exactly as described. And people must remember that a stamp dealer and a stamp expert are more than often not the same. I will never figure out how a seller like the one this thread is about has received the trust from buyers that that have.

It would help if Anthony's bad "reviews" were not summarily removed by ebay.

Agreed. But the sad truth is ego and a blind confirmation bias often overrules common sense. In another forum, there is a person who pushed back the other day saying they support the seller in this thread and have gotten plenty great deals. Sigh.

I think what happens is that folks are looking to fill a hole of one of the less common stamps. They search ebay listings and sort by cheapest first. Finding a 'good deal' they bid and win some of the crap that some sellers peddle.

But here is the kicker...when they receive it they do not float the stamp, they do not watermark the stamp, and they very, very rarely get additional opinions on the stamp. Instead, they mount it in their albums and are proud at their great buying skills. Only when they go to sell the collection (or their family goes to sell it) do they find out that the grand collection they thought they had is really full of crap barely worth 5%-8% of catalog.

The majority of good dealers know exactly what quality material is worth and list it as such. So they do not show up in the buyers search of 'cheapest first'. If their listings are noticed it is only to justify bidding on the 'good deals'.

You know, being a wet blanket sucks too. I hate that we have to constantly tell people that come to online communities that they have been screwed. It gets weary being the messenger, being accused of only being jealous, etc. I have always been a person who believes that ignorance is a voluntary handicap, but we really need to counter balance the power of the ebay marketing machine. The effectiveness of their marketing influence with the 'buy from people you don't know half way around the world sight unseen' is impressive, overwhelming, and damaging our hobby.
Don

The trust comes from my 200 PSE cert and one counterfeit on ebay. False confidence.

But wait..eBay BUY WITH CONFIDENCE, POWER SELLER SINCE 1998, CLOSING IN 100k reviews, Neg feedback all on international delivery issues, nothing on FAKES, (can find word FAKE if you slog thru POSITIVE Reviews). Oh yes the A+ BBB rating in NJ and ASDA would be there for the trade and me too if there was FRAUD (Wrong!). How could anyone fall into such an overt trap? I wish I had just one small sample of Anthony's in my first 200 cert. with PSE, like Collect04 (sent back immediately with full refund thank God, MORMAN (multi), NYStamp (multi), (skipped listing any singles dealer issues as I agree HONEST mistakes do happen sometimes) How dealers react tells you everything but from The rear view mirror. The 'better" (read some ethics) dealers say send it back right away for a full refund (no cert reimbursements). Others were closer to an Anthony and try not to take any ownership. I THOUGHT I had a good feel for the market place. Wrongo!

I would never of trusted this man if this $ was material needed for survival into my old manhood. This is a hobby, I could be playing golf for $50,000 initiation fee and 5k of after-tax money (yes I always pay my taxes first) on green fees and mandatory meals every year. That is not for me I just dont like crooks that get the better of me and the hobby for that matter.