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Anthony's Llc Dismal PF Report Card = Follow Up To 10/23/17 Discussion

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6459 Posts
Posted 01/21/2018   11:34 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But the sad truth is ego and a blind confirmation bias often overrules common sense. In another forum, there is a person who pushed back the other day saying they support the seller in this thread and have gotten plenty great deals. Sigh.


Don,

The problem you are encountering is that not EVERYTHING Anthony's offers is bogus or overpriced (although the latter 99% of the time), so you will inevitably encounter people that are satisfied with Anthony's, and they have every right to be.

Just because Anthony's sells a lot of bogus items doesn't make the satisfied customers wrong, assuming that what they bought was what it was presented as.

As with Apfelbaum, Langs, and other repeat offenders, *IF* you stumble across something outside of their knowledge sphere, or when they are trying to blow out inventory, deals can be found.

I've made purchases from Anthony's... although I only think I've purchased from them 2 or 3 times in 15 years.

From a post I made here in 2016, edited slightly as some things in ebay listings have changed:


Quote:
If there ever was an example of Caveat Emptor...

Anthony's appear to be somewhat morally/ethically challenged at times... they come from the Bill Langs and Apfelbaum, Inc. school of stamp dealing.

They frequently overstate the catalog value of bulk lots and collections, some more so than others, and some laughably so.

Secondly, they are very poor about responding to inquiries in a timely fashion, instead encouraging you to call in by phone, presumably so they can make the sale circumventing ebay's fees.

They have a tendency to only show small portions of large lots, hoping your imagination will "fill in the blanks" to get to their stated catalog value.

The only times I have ever purchased from them has been when what I see on screen makes the lot worthwhile, or more accurately: worth a gamble.

Case in point:

Just last week I made the first purchase from them in well over 5 years (might be closer to 10). It was a 4-binder dealer stock of classic Sweden, supposedly $9,000 in Scott. I collect used Sweden for the socked-on-the-nose cancels, so this was in my wheelhouse.

The amount of material shown was a very small amount compared to what 4 sales binders would hold. What was pictured showed some promise, but my assumption (not just with Anthony's but ANY bulk lot from any source not viewed firsthand) is that major key items will be faulty. Then it becomes a question of what percentage of Scott you are willing to pay for the whole vs. what you think you can pull out and/or flip.

When they first listed the lot it was priced close to $1,000. They inched it lower over time until it got to it's current point of $666. Then after a period of time they listed it with a 30% off sale, dropping it to $466. That would be just over 5% of Scott *IF* their stated total was accurate.

Closer, but still too much of a gamble, IMO. However, they left the Best Offer option intact even during the sale. I made an offer of $250 to see if it would be autodeclined. It wasn't and they came back with a counter of $350. That said to me that they were motivated to move the lot, so I countered again with $300. Sold.

Upon arrival, I inventoried the lot to see how far off the estimate was. Some of the prices in pictures were clearly overinflated (much Scandinavian material has taken a serious tumble over the last decade). That said, many of the earlier items had actually increased since the lot had been catalogued.

When I was done and tallied everything up, the catalog value actually slightly exceeded their estimate, at roughly $9,600. Yes, there is quite a bit of faulty material, but at roughly 3.1% of current Scott, it's hard to go wrong.

So at the end of the day, I say be VERY cautious when evaluating their offerings, but if you are patient and scrutinize things, deals can be had.



Now, is that a ringing endorsement? I certainly hope not, but the truth is that if you are exceedingly careful, you can get a good deal from them once a decade or so. That said, I would never buy a single stamp from them that required any kind of expertise to accurately identify.

More importantly, I would NEVER encourage a novice collector to buy from them.
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Pillar Of The Community
697 Posts
Posted 01/21/2018   12:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StateRevs to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Another angle to consider as well is what is the actual material?

I also made a purchase from Anthony's recently and it was definitely outside their wheelhouse. Quite happy and would do it again, even if I find Anthony's completely despicable.

At the end of the day, brick and mortar shops barely exist. I believe we have a whopping ONE store left in the entire state of New Mexico, and the owner has had to go part time due to serious health issues.

If you do your research, and the scarce item you are after is such that it can't be modified/forged from a cheaper stamp, that is a completely different transaction than buying a Washington Franklin "coil" or a rouletted proprietary stamp. I have seen several estimates bounced around on SCF, but it is now to the point where your W/F stamp on ebay is guaranteed to be bogus unless it has a proper certificate - and that would exclude the "John Smith Stamp Certifiers" certs we have started to see.

We all love stamps or we would be on this forum. As much as it pisses me off law enforcement doesn't seem willing or able to do anything about it, we as a community need to start making noise to educate the collectors looking at that material, and put pressure on these morally corrupt dealers.

I am not referring to dealers who make occasional mistakes - we all do it. I am referring to the dealers who know full well they are listing a modified $10 stamp as a rare $1,000 stamp, over and over and over again. There is no way the dealers listed in this entire topic aren't intentionally doing what they are doing. They know, they don't care, and they will continue to do it as long as they are outside prison, or are vertical and breathing air.
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507 Posts
Posted 01/21/2018   12:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dkabq8 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
At the end of the day, brick and mortar shops barely exist. I believe we have a whopping ONE store left in the entire state of New Mexico, and the owner has had to go part time due to serious health issues.


I was not even aware of that "whopping one store". What is it called and where is it?
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Posted 01/21/2018   12:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StateRevs to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Jeff King has a store (Alamo Stamp and Coin Gallery) in Alamogordo.

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Valued Member
United States
319 Posts
Posted 01/24/2018   10:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Reedededge to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So, I check out ebay this evening, and guess who has their ASDA logo back on their listings while selling another counterfeit trimmed #315? You will NEVER guess: https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stamps-...AOSwDkpaYVLo It actually looks like they are back in full force, unscathed by all of our efforts: https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stamps-...AOSwlzRaYVL3
And this is just one night's worth of larceny! Multiply that by 365, then times the number of years they have been in business, and the true scope of their criminal deception becomes apparent: https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stamps-...AOSwObhaYVMz
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Edited by Reedededge - 01/24/2018 10:39 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
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Posted 01/24/2018   10:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ebay does not care, ASDA does not care and frankly quite a few buyers do not care. Fees for ebay, membership revenue for ASDA and "bargains to be had" for some buyers. Some folks that express outrage at multiples being broken up, and think that grading is a pox on the hobby are OK with patronizing Anthony's. Anything can be rationalized I guess. Go figure.
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Posted 01/24/2018   10:59 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Some folks that express outrage at multiples being broken up, and think that grading is a pox on the hobby are OK with patronizing Anthony's.


Apples and oranges.
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Edited by revenuecollector - 01/24/2018 10:59 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
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Posted 01/24/2018   11:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 01/25/2018   07:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Has anyone reported dealers to ASDA? You can be sure ASDA is not going to take action unless some complains.
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Al
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Posted 01/25/2018   1:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rhett to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rogdcam said: " ebay does not care, ASDA does not care and frankly quite a few buyers do not care. Fees for ebay, membership revenue for ASDA and "bargains to be had" for some buyers. Some folks that express outrage at multiples being broken up, and think that grading is a pox on the hobby are OK with patronizing Anthony's. Anything can be rationalized I guess. Go figure."
rogdcam, you are of course correct. ebay does not care for their own financial and operational reasons, ASDA does not show any signs of caring (hard to explain why they would not care but evidently they don't), and certain buyers have become so knowledgeable that they believe they can beat the bad sellers on ebay with their knowledge and obtain great bargains. And this last group evidently does not understand that there are those of us who do not have their degree of sophistication in the hobby and actually need some protections like certificates, grading, NARUing of bad ebay sellers, ASDA actions against bad members, etc. in order to remain in and enjoy the hobby. To them I would say they should look at a much bigger picture than their own narrow interest; their "bargains" and elite specialty collections won't mean as much if there aren't buyers someday. We all need each other to have a viable hobby. I have read some pretty nasty slams on this board against catalog providers, certification agencies, collector societies, dealers, and auction houses over their pricing and/or fee structures. We need all of these companies/organizations to thrive and succeed; attacking their only means of income seems extremely detrimental to me. These entities, along with collectors, help form the structure of the hobby. When I attempt to sell my collection a few years down the road, I don't want to have to go try to find a buyer at the local Saturday flea market ("Stamps?, try Lenny in booth 371, just past the guy with the pet rocks, I think he does some stamps sometimes"). We all need a viable continuing stamp market and that takes collectors, catalogs, certifiers, societies, dealers, and auctioneers (as well as great educational tools like Stamp Smarter). The OP of this thread was excited about getting into this hobby and was willing to put forth a sizeable financial amount in doing so. He got burned and is no longer in the hobby. This is not good.
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Posted 01/25/2018   1:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rhett - Extremely well said.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 01/25/2018   1:49 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The OP of this thread was excited about getting into this hobby and was willing to put forth a sizeable financial amount in doing so. He got burned and is no longer in the hobby. This is not good.


I'm sorry, but as much as Anthony's SHOULD be held responsible for selling legitimate material, in this particular case, the buyer ALSO has to bear some responsibility.

We have a novice collector jumping into the deep end spending thousands of dollars on HIGHLY specialized issues that require expertization, without doing any research or due diligence.

Quite frankly, I have never heard of a novice collector plunging in that deep right out of the gate before. Beginning collectors always work their way up to specialized/expensive material. No collector I have ever met started with expensive material not knowing anything about philately.

In all candor, I question some of the information we have been given in this thread. It just doesn't ring true in all aspects.

Does that excuse or justify Anthony's ripping anyone off? Of course not. But in doing what the OP did, he set himself up to be taken advantage of.

You don't just throw gobs of money at things without having any frame of reference. That is the most imprudent thing in the world to do.
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Edited by revenuecollector - 01/25/2018 1:50 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 01/25/2018   2:12 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have an idea. Why don't we make a big long list of all of the things that are bad for the hobby and those that want me, and others, to boycott half of the ebay sellers can tell us what they are going to do about it. Seems fair to me...

Who is going to start?
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 01/25/2018   2:20 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As we mourn the loss of YOP, let's not forget that he was not a collector. He was an investor.
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Bedrock Of The Community
12647 Posts
Posted 01/25/2018   3:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Winston - You can deal with whomever you choose to deal with. I am as guilty as some others as veering off of the main topic of this thread. Anthony's sold misrepresented stamps. Given that it was 18 for 19 in the no-pass column we can assume that it was deliberate especially given his other history. ebay looked the other way and in fact removed the negative feedback. Bad for the hobby, and the buyers sin was trusting the 99.9999999 percent postive feedback as well as thinking that ebay actually gives a hoot. The premise seems to be "how dare the buyer purchase higher value stamps". Ridiculous. Nobody should blame the victim. These incidents damage the hobby and drive people away from the hobby. Sitting on ones high horse and preaching that they need to acquire as much knowledge as the "experts" is not only detrimental to our hobby it divides collectors into groups. We need to be one and not look down our noses at those with less knowledge because, let's face it, none of us knows it all and we should have an expectation of not being derided for being a victim. Those who choose to deal with and in turn support the bad actors are not helping anyone.
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