Anthony's Llc Dismal PF Report Card = Follow Up To 10/23/17 Discussion

I've followed this thread with some interest, being the President of our local stamp club. I mention this because one of the biggest problems local clubs - and even national organizations - are having is recruiting members, enticing them, cajoling them, trying everything we can to bring them in.

As collectors, rogdcam is right - we need to do whatever we can to BETTER the hobby. This is the only way we, who truly value the hobby, can make a difference. We HAVE to have a united stand on certain ideals, otherwise, the problem will just continue to destroy the hobby.

Let's look at YoP for a moment. Here's someone who decided to take a big plunge, as someone said "into the deep end," investing a large sum of money. As an absolute novice, not knowing where else to go, he chose ebay. Unfortunately, he chose the wrong seller. Now, he's not just not a collector, he's a negative against collecting because of his experience. How many potential collectors will he turn away when he explains what has happened to him? Perhaps those potential future collectors who would have purchased your collection or mine when we decide to divest ourselves of them.

Rhett touched upon this idea as well.

What we, as collectors, and for many of us, knowledgeable collectors, should never abide are the crooks, shysters and hucksters who are peddling fraud. I don't care whether there may be "good deals to be had" because it's an area "outside of their wheelhouse," when someone knowingly supports one of these bad characters, they are giving them their imprimatur of acceptance and helping to fund their continued operation. Is finding that "good deal" really worth doing that?

Word of mouth, or in this digital age, electronically transmitted rants, by disgruntled and angered individuals will help destroy this hobby faster than we, as collectors, or the national organizations such as the APS and ASDA, can correct that impression.

I wonder how many people have looked at this thread who are not members, just browsing, and then decided stamps are just not a safe enough hobby to involved with?

So, what CAN we do?

(1) Report the problem to ASDA and APS, formally. EACH OF US. The more they hear about it, the more likely someone will see it as the threat it is.

(2) Adamantly refuse to support the "dodgy" sellers who are hawking this spurious material - COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY refuse to buy ANYTHING from them.

(3) Work to help others. This forum, along with Stampsmarter and other website are a start.

(4) For those of you who are experts in your areas, please try to remember you weren't born with that knowledge, that you had to learn it along the way. Perhaps you were fortunate enough to have a couple of great mentors. Maybe you had to do it all yourself, reading and researching. Either way, someone was there to help you, whether it was a live mentor or the philatelists who authored the materials you've used. It's time to give back.

It's time to start now...

We also must remember how many collectors don't actively participate in on-line forums. You can post a good image here and receive input from some very knowledgeable people that can save you a lot of money. IF all you had to go by was a small image from a paper catalog you probably wouldn't question a purchase from most sellers and simply assume it is as listed. Hell how many people have come here thinking they hit the lottery with an old stamp only to hear what they didn't want to hear. Then they leave here and don't believe the advice and responses they received.

If as much energy was expended in using the report link that appears bottom right on every ebay listing as is in discussion here, Anthony's account would be closed.

It's how Stampboards is so successful in exposing and closing down the ebay crooks. Members there are proactive and report the fraudulent listings. It's people power in sheer weight of numbers that works.

Not exactly 'beating a dead horse' but I would like to see a separate forum for ebay discussion - questions about listings, errors, outright fraud, sellers etc.

Does Anthony have a middle name like Anthony "The Saint",
or Anthony "Baby Shack' or "The Meatball"? If Anthony robbed as many folks as he has, and lived near my home town, someone would have put him in the trunk of their car and asked him if he could behave any better if they let him out!
My guess would be "Organized Crime"!

Unfortunately, the ebay REPORT ITEM link does nothing. I have used it literally hundreds of times, and NEVER received a response or seen any action taken against the individual or item being reported. Not to be cynical, but it's like the suggestion box that feeds right into the shredder. I have, however, had some success with my personal ebay contact. She listens, and if she thinks my point has validity, takes action. Without getting into too much detail, she was responsible for getting Anthony's user name changed, so that they could no longer advertise their 800 phone number in literally thousands of their listings. But, when I tried to rally the troops earlier in this thread, I got ONE single response. So for all the ethical activists that want to change the landscape of our hobby, and make ebay a safer place to trade, where are you? I am willing to spend my time and involve my personal ebay contact to do my part in getting this firm shut down; but I can not fight this alone, or even with just one other. We need numbers and we need to stand united if we are to make an example of this company. Getting rid of Anthony's, despite its seemingly minimal impact to the overall ebay landscape, will send a message, and that's a start. The alternative is doing nothing and we just live with the status quo.

Hi Reedededge, so are you saying that Stampboards hasn't shut down hundreds of ebay accounts simply by using people power and the Report item link? Sorry, BUT it does work and works very well.

I agree that an individual effort like yours as you've reported has no chance. ebay needs lots of collectors hammering them that certain listings are fraudulent and they eventually take action when it's the same listings being reported over and over. Then they see the pattern for the seller with repeated issues and the penny drops.

I also think use of your ebay insider has merit IF you can break the apathy being shown here. The difference is Stampboards has a large band of very proactive members in its pursuit of ebay crooks. The irony is no-one there has been burnt by Anthony's to date as the StampBoards members primarily collect Commonwealth, not high value US.

Reedededge,
It is likely that you did not get a better response to your offer because people realize that you are an Anthony's competitor. They are hesitant to align themselves with someone who may have a vested interest in going after Anthony's. (Note, I am not questioning your motives. I do not know you and do not want to be presumptive, I am only offering a possible reason as to why you have not gotten more interest in your offer.)

koalastamps,
As mentioned by others the ebay link is a total waste of time. The people on this board easily represent using it thousands of times, I know for a fact that I tried it over one thousand times myself as part of the Stamp Smarter Listing Review process. Stamp Smarter Listing Review has over 2000 bad listings identified/published with a success rate of around 35% (listing which got pulled or changed after working with the sellers). I agree that the 'down-under' has published a lot of the bad ebay listings but this forum has done just as much. There are also people on this forum who were part of the original ebay oversight group who put in a lot of hours removing bad listings back in the days when ebay had the program. I would not classify this as apathy.

No one, including the 'down under' forum, has achieved anything in getting the biggest scammers like the Cartel or the guy in France removed from ebay. The only thing any of us have been able to do is to get those sellers which want to cooperate to improve their listings. If anyone was able to get ebay's ear then they would be able to get the worst scammers like the cartel removed. Reedededge's post about getting his rep to get Anthony to change their name is the first time that I have actually heard of anyone getting ebay to take action but obviously this was a case where it was violating ebay's own policy.

If anyone has evidience of anything that has gotten ebay itself to change, including the names of any NARUed accounts, please post them.
Don

Seems we will need to disagree then Don. Thankfully there are still many willing to pursue this.

I will agree with this. Koala, if you've spent anytime on SB you may or may not know that I am one of the moderators there and know what goes on behind the scenes. The 2 forums (SCF & SB) are very different even though their product is very similar.

SB has dedicated threads exposing the crooks but the difference there is it's not just accusations. The members there do quite a bit of research, then follow up in the associated threads with links to the auctions and images of all the items in question. This way new members and existing members can follow the deceitful sellers every move.

This particular thread is 14 pages as of today and I don't remember seeing too many links and images of deceitful listings posted by the members upset with Anthony's.

Yes, SB hits ebay very hard when the crooks are exposed and ebay probably won't pay too much attention to random reportings of listings. But if a particular listing generates 20 - 30 reports then ebay will shut the listing down.

Assuming that ebay will do nothing is exactly what these sellers are hoping the mindset of collectors is. The ONLY way to stop these people is to generate reports in large numbers.

stallzer,
Can you send me a link or two where the down under board has gotten ebay to NARU a seller?
Don

I would add that some of us here do indeed do more than just whine, for example

https://goscf.com/t/46654

https://goscf.com/t/53730

And if the board down under has proven that they can get ebay attention, then what is the hold up with the most notorious sellers like the cartel? Why havent they been able to do anything with him?

(I fully admit that I am ignorant on the activities of the down under forum. I consider that forum as doing more damage than good to the hobby so I have choosen to never visit it again.)

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopi...p?f=21&t=242

Here is the new thread the O.P. (YOP) has started on SB.

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopi...f=21&t=80384

Here are a few example of the diligence by the members there.

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopi...f=21&t=59312
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopi...f=21&t=75577
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopi...f=21&t=49896
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopi...f=21&t=38353

These are just a few of many threads there that publicize the dodgy listings/sellers that are out there. Even if all the posts and reports don't get a seller shutdown it does inform collectors willing to read the threads.

Thank you. I concur that publishing the information and keeping buyers informed is an important part of the solution. And I agree that with effort some sellers are willing to improve or even remove listings based upon communications and the publishing of this information.

I was seeking evidence that eBay takes action based upon input.
Don

I'll post more later today. I apologize that my response indicates that we do nothing here as I know that isn't the case. You can see by the links that I posted the effort that goes into following the dealings of many shady sellers. You will also see that it's a requirement on SB that members post actual links and images so when the link dies the images capture the item for the long term. The O.P. of this thread got lit up for starting a baseless thread on Anthony's because he/she just launched accusations instead of pointing out specific items and auctions.