Csa Gem Or Another Ebay Dud?

So Patricia made a mistake? She actually handled the item and we are working from ebay scans. Hmmmmmm

It's not always a "mistake", sometimes it's just a failure to notice something. I have done it myself. It is amazing what shows up in a scan that can easily be missed without a really close look at every little detail.

It isn't funny. All I am trying to say is that I don't think it reflects poorly on her expertise. I class an oversight as being different from so-called "mistakes" that happen due to lack of knowledge.

What oversight Winston? Are you saying that based on the ebay scans the cover has issues? Given Patricia's credentials when it comes to Confederate philately and the fact that she actually had an opportunity to physically examine the cover at one time I do find it amusing that it has been deemed as being suspect based upon a thorough interweb examination. Quite amusing.

I totally agree with you. I am trying to blunt any criticism because nobody here has had the chance to inspect the cover in-hand.

Just like I tried to stick up for the ebay seller.

The only reason I entered this discussion was because it looked like the SCF firing squad was getting ready to execute another ebay seller. In this particular case, a seller that I happen to like and think is a pretty straight shooter.

Sinclair, where do you see that? I just went back and reread the thread. I see people questioning the item based upon the image. Since when is that a crime? I don't see any remarks about the seller at all, just that based upon the images, people have questions. Something doesn't seem "right" with the cover. This happens all the time. That doesn't equate to pillorying the seller.

Rogdcam, your constant ridiculing anyone whose opinion doesn't align with yours is getting tiresome. Just because a renowned expert gives an opinion on an item, doesn't mean it can't (or shouldn't) be questioned in light of an item's appearance. Furthermore, the communication from Ms. Kaufman presented in this thread is very informal and only addresses whether the name on the back is hers; it doesn't go into ANY information about whether that is a formal expertization mark or simply that at one time the cover was in her inventory. Nor does it ask or address anything regarding the cancel in question. It was a very generic response.

As much as you want to twist questioning of an expert into stating that the expert is wrong (it's not the same, btw), there is just as much jumping to conclusions on the other side as to the meaning of the marks on the back of the cover.

Questioning and resulting analysis is how we get to the bottom of things. The constant ridicule and sarcasm really isn't warranted. That's a page straight out of the Ken Lawrence School of Public Discourse.

Rev - Thank you for the kind words. I understand your point of view even if I disagree. I do not ridicule people. I ask questions when they render opinions and in this case I went to the source of the signature in question. Nobody is beyond being questioned. In fact it is a healthy thing. Egos need to be checked at the door. When folks persisted with the notion that the cover was problematic I questioned why they thought that given that Patricia had handled the cover, signed the cover, looked at the ebay link and confirmed it was ok in her opinion. There never was a definitive answer given by anyone as to what was wrong with the cover just vague aspersions cast. If that is tiresome just skip over my comments. Questions are a very healthy thing. I am here to learn from others.

Dan, The thread was started by a poster that primarily posts or starts threads having to do with the dangers of buying on ebay. The title of the thread implies that everything on ebay is a "dud", apparently regardless of the seller or whether he knows the seller.

Another anti-ebayer said "Patricia had nothing to do with the cover. It is a part of the sales pitch. Go to her page of CSA 9 covers to see the real thing."

If this thread had been started about one of your listings, you might have thought you were under attack and not only defend your opinion of the item but your very reputation.

This is a clarification of why the cover doesn't look right to me

Since there is no written explanation from Patricia Kaufmann, we can't assume that her name is anything more than an inventory marking, sort of like Mr. Stolow and other dealers did many years ago. However, It does indicate that the stamp is genuine, I feel sure.

To my eyes, the stamp is not tied to the cover by the cancellation. It has either fallen off and been poorly reattached, or it was not originally on this cover. The discoloration at the top of the stamp and the adjoining cover paper seem to indicate that the stamp has been on this cover for an extended period, but that does not prove that it has been there since 1864.

The written-over address indicates that this could very well be a reused hand carried letter, but it could also be a period cover from which the stamp has fallen off. This would be a convenient vehicle for the "less than honest" owner of a thinned or otherwise damaged TEN stamp.

Addendum.

Many Southern covers of the Civil War era were made of manila paper, such as the previous item under discussion.

Manilla paper is made from the bast fibers of jute, which was imported in great quantities from India during the 19th century. Jute fibers were used in many products, especially, rope and canvas.

Manilla paper was an American invention, first created in Boston in 1838. Following the Panic of 1837 the inventors didn't have cash money to purchase rags, and so to save their paper mill they began to experiment with alternate fibers. They bought some old canvas sails and bolt ropes from nearby ship yard, cut it up, and threw it into the hollander. Soon thereafter they produced a smooth pulp that their paper machine lapped-up creating some very rugged but useful paper.

My philatelic exhibit "America's Great Age of Papermaking, 1815-1905" contains an 1839 letter to a paper mill referring to this new kind of paper. The sender went so far as to enclose a sample, and it is believed this to be the earliest surviving sample of American-made manilla paper.

During the War the southern states were blockaded, and as their ships were largely rotting in harbor it seems there was a significant quantity of canvas and rope for the taking. This kind of material ultimately went to local paper mills who turned it into manilla paper for envelopes and other uses.

Thanks for that AJ. Interesting and informative.