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Is Pinkish Paper Still Accepted As A Variety On The Bank Note Stamps?

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Pillar Of The Community

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Posted 02/06/2018   03:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stamperix to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,

I read several times now in books and articles about the pinkish paper for some bank note stamp, like the blue 5c Garfield stamp. But in the Scott there is no such paper explained and I also found that most people don't see it as a real variety.

Has anybody more background about this paper, on which stamps is it known and is it still accepted today?

thank you.
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Posted 02/06/2018   3:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I found here at SCF a thread about pink backs, like at the 425 and 426, and there is also a comment in Scott about it, but no information about if it's an accepted variety. From discussion here I understood that it's not, it's more a "very bleeding" ink, in direction of aniline dye terms.

https://goscf.com/t/42322&whichpage=1

Still my topic is about the bank note stamps, the 5c Garfield and 5c Taylor. In Hahn's article he says that they are perhaps also pink back, but he is not sure.

http://www.nystamp.org/postal-histo...ic-is-paper/

At the Luff reference collection at the Philatelic Foundation there is an example of a 5c Garfield with pinkish paper. Has anybody seen it, and is the paper more like the "pink backs" or more "totally pinkish", back and front?


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Pillar Of The Community
United States
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Posted 02/06/2018   11:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You are correct to infer that the discussion about "pink backs" has nothing to do with the "pink paper" variety of the 5c Garfield.

Your reference to the 5c Taylor on pinkish paper threw me off for a bit until I checked the Hahn article and a writeup of the Eagle auction. Hahn cleared it up: "Later we find the 5¢ Taylor of 1875 is known on a pinkish laid paper." (emphasis mine.) This is a reference to one of the paper shades of what Brazier referred to as the Campbell, Hall, and Co safety paper experimentals.

That paper is rather thick and stiff, with strongly pronounced lines that until recently were thought to be laid lines, though today are understood to have been impressed by the dandy roll in the manufacture of machine made paper. It was produced in three color toned papers, one of which has pinkish overtones. These were never issued and need not concern us further.

The 5c Garfield is a different matter. In his magisterial work of 1902, John Luff reported that a single unused example of the 5c on paper with a decidedly pink tone was shown to him by a Mr. F. O. Conant of Portland, Maine. Conant reported that a local collector had purchased a lot of ten or fifteen such at the Portland Post Office in 1889. Among the group was a top margin plate number pair, in which the color ran evenly all the way through the margin to the edge. The evenness of the coloring precluded that it was some kind of accidental stain. Luff says no more about it, but the variety is listed in the first U.S. Specialized in 1926, and continues to be listed as an "a" or "b" subvariety until 1973, when it disappears. It was not moved to the proof section, nor does it resurface in 1992 with the essay section.

Brookman, in his discussion of 216 in volume three of his magnum opus, includes a letter from J.M. Bartels to a client in which he enclosed a pair of a similar pink paper he had sold to a client but could not get agreement on its authenticity, despite testimony from John Luff himself. He also relates that Luff had purchased the copy earlier shown him by Conant, but that it had been stuck down on a page and was ruined as evidence in the attempt to remove it. Here I would note that this damaged example is what you should expect to find in the Luff reference collection at the PF. Brookman adds the note that although the pink paper type was never listed used, at the time of his writing (1967) unnamed specialists advised him that genuine used examples were known to exist (most probably still on cover).

Hereafter, so far as I know, the trail goes cold. I have read no further discussions of it, and in 1973 it was removed from the Specialized, though on what evidence or authority I cannot say. I have never seen one, and cannot quite imagine what it looks like. However, there is a precedent for something like it from about ten years earlier than it would have been issued. Here is an example of an experimental modeling the varnish coated paper of Joseph Schnoble, having all the characteristics of such a stamp variety:




I do not think that the 5c Garfield indigo on pink paper was a resurrection of the Schnoble patent since the days of that quest were long past by 1888. But the patent item is certainly a precedent. Until I see contrary conclusive evidence debunking the existence of such a thing I leave the door open for it to surface. One further note: numerous US essays of the late 19th century, several of them unknown prior to recovery, have surfaced among old collections in Europe. Since you are in Germany it would pay to keep your mind and your eyes open for something that has apparently not been seen in the United States for a very long time.
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Edited by essayk - 02/06/2018 11:35 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 02/07/2018   04:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you for your helpful details.

About the 5c Garfield: Hahn writes that "It is about as pink as the Washington-Franklin blue papers are blue", and it sounds as if he had seen the example at the PF. So it must be - in his opinion - more a gray paper, perhaps with a light pinkish idea. (on the other hand he says that the 5c Garfield would also be like the aniline dye stamps which contradicts his above mentioned sentence)

As the PF has received 216A's for certification and declined, they probably use their example for comparison:
http://www.philatelicfoundation.org...216A-001.jpg

So it would really be interesting to get an opinion today about how this reference object looks like. But I guess one would have to go there to see it in person. But as it has not been discovered another example for years it must be really a very light pinkish color in it.

About the other stamps you showed: are the 1c and 5c those appearing as 158-E2 (1c) and 179-E4 (5c) in the essay section of Scott?
and the 3c, is this also the 158-E2?

(in short: are all those essays in Scott?)


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Posted 02/07/2018   08:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sure that Cal Hahn had plenty of opportunity to examine the example in the Luff collection, such as it is, and was able to comment on the present appearance. But how that compares with an example that has never been soaked we do not know. I have never heard a report that they determined the degree to which the pink color is fugitive for the 5c Garfield on pinkish paper.

As for the stamps I showed, all are listed in the essay section. The 1c is 156-E2, the 5c is as you surmised, and the 3c should list as 158-E2, but the description in Scott is not quite correct.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 02/07/2018   12:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you again, essayk, the topic of pinkish paper is much more clear to me now. So we can keep our eyes open and perhaps wait for some research being done in this paper in the future.
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Posted 05/14/2018   1:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lokidog99 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am not an active collector but believe I have a Scott 216a (Garfield 5c on pink paper) that has been mentioned in this thread. It is in a collection built by my late father in the 1930's and includes a 1936 response from Scott Stamp & Coin to an inquiry from my father commenting on the then several hundred dollar value of an authentic version of the stamp.

While researching the stamp I came across a mention of it in Vol XXVII No. 31, August 2 1913, of "Merkeel's Weekly Stamp News" found on Google Books as follows, "A Variety of the blue stamp was found printed on a pink paper, used in Portland Maine, in 1889. As stamps on this tinted paper were obtained with marginal paper there is no doubt of its authenticity.The true pink paper can easily be told from one stained by contact with vermilion stamps by a specialist."

I'd appreciate any further thoughts anyone might have on this stamp.

Regards, Brad





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Posted 05/14/2018   1:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome Brad,
The uneven pink color of this stamp makes it suspect in my opinion.
Don
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Posted 05/14/2018   2:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Seems today is the day of the discovery of some of my old threads :).

Brad: Interesting to read about this old collection and this stamp. As written above it's possible that pinkish paper may not really look pinkish. The only thing I could think of is that you ask the Philatelic Foundation - where is at least one example of this stamp - if they could describe or show you their pinkish paper example. Or you send this or better a scan to them and ask them if this could be pinkish paper - and why not.
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Bedrock Of The Community
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Posted 05/14/2018   3:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is an example that Siegel sold in Auction 847.

https://siegelauctions.com/lot_grd....mitNext=Next


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Posted 05/14/2018   3:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is a different paper, see the explanation of essayk above:
https://goscf.com/t/59080#519038

Brad's question and my answer were about the 5c Garfield.
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Posted 05/14/2018   4:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To be a contender for the Garfield pink paper, the stamp must be original gum without cancel, i.e. mint.

Used stamps no longer on cover (and even examples still on cover), could be pink for any number of reasons having nothing to do with stamp production. Most often it will be due to coming into close proximity with some tinted paper in the soaking bath.
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Posted 05/14/2018   6:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Was a steam press used?
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Posted 05/14/2018   7:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lokidog99 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I appreciate all of the input. You all are obviously much more knowledgeable than me, but if the stamp were altered it would have to have been before my father's 1936 letter of inquiry to Scott about the pink stamp. Given the apparent obscurity and reported limited geographic distribution of the pink variation, it would seem less likely that many would (a) know of the variation, and (2) would bother fraudulently altering a relatively young 40-year old stamp.

Anyway, again thanks for your interest and guidance.

Regards,

Brad
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Posted 05/14/2018   9:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As essayk mentioned, it was probably just color transfer from a red colored envelope while soaking. This is why the pink is uneven. I doubt that this was a fraudulent attempt.
Don
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Posted 05/15/2018   07:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
essayk, did you find new information about thie 5c Garfiled on pinkish paper since our discussion above?

I ask this, because we said above that we actually don't really know how this stamp paper looks like. Hahn says it's not really that pinkish, just as the bluish paper is not really that bluish, but more gray. On the other hand he says that it could be due to aniline ink just as the pink backs. This is contradictory just as all information we have about this stamp. As long as we don't know how a pinkish paper on the 5c Garfield looks like and what qualifies it as pinkish paper (like additional indicators as we know for the bluish paper), it also does not matter if the stamp is used or mint, and if the color is evenly or not. At the end it is a question to the PF if they would certify a stamp as pinkish paper that looks like the one in their collection.

That's why I suggested to Brad to ask the PF directly - and I would be happy to read what they said if he reports it here in the forum.
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