1851 Era 1c Franklin - Pretty Type IV I Believe

Looks like type IV very much, but, maybe one of the more knowledgeable folks here can confirm and I have a question about the recut. I can't see it. It looks like a tiny break in the bottom line - not what I expect to see there.

Thanks in advance.

Rick

It's a Type II, Scott #7 from Plate 1E. NYC large slug cancel.

Edit: As for any (Type IIIa) breaks.... fuhgeddaboudit.

I agree (of course) with Winston. This is a nice stamp -- Plate 1E examples are generally very attractive in color and clarity of impression.

Agreed. Relief A.

The NYC Slug was used on Circular mail in the second half of 1851 for the most part. I don't recall the exact time range. It is a very good cancellation to get, and definitely commands a premium.

Thanks all very much. I knew help was needed on this one. Great info.

I have quite a soft spot for NYC cancels but this particular cancel can be found with a better strike. I would agree that a small premium is in order.

Here is one from my collection.


Here is one, a Type IIIa stamp, that I sold on ebay.

This is also a Type IIIa perforated stamp that Winston sold on ebay. I was happy to buy it. I thought it was beautiful. It will be offered by Robert A. Siegel Auction Galleries. Sale 1187 — United States Stamps
Sale Date — Wednesday, 25 July, 2018 Lot # 70.

This is my image



1c Blue, Ty. IIIa (22). Plate 4, rich color, neat strike of unusual Boston double-rim circular date stamp, Fine (Image)
Search for comparables at SiegelAuctions.com $ 450.00

https://siegelauctions.com/lot_grd..../2020&symbol[]=All&lotclass=All&syear=All&pfoper=All&pseoper=All&pfgrade=&psegrade=&gandor=or&keyword=&catselect=eq&pscolumn=default&pssortby=&sortord=DESC&photo=&calledfrom=lkp

Why did you not get it plated first? It might add value. My first guess would be 37L4 but could not find an image to compare it to.

It does appear to be a 4th row D relief jaxom.

jaxom100, I thought if Winston did not plate or have it plated, why bother. I am not experienced in this area.

I offer my gold stars and kudos to you for your efforts in the reconstruction projects. I have read some of these threads.

I have always shared my respect for Winston as a seller!

It is always good to plate this issue. It will confirm the type and Scott number without staring at the stamp. A TFA certificate would help it sell better (IMO).

It is not a matter of you trusting Winston, but for others to trust the stamp.

Thanks for the kudos. I have been working to plate a few harder ones. I want to be positive of plate position before I post it online. I have a group coming in next week of 23-26 imperf Franklins that I will need to plate. That should get me some positions that I need. I do not think the seller had any clue about them. I have to wait and see what I get.

I think it is actually 74L4 and Bob will do just fine on the stamp, considering what he has in it. I don't recall if I had even tried to plate it before I sold it. It is hard for platers to come to grips with the fact that some (most?) people don't care about the plating.

Bottom shelf certificates, for many good reasons, have marginal value outside of ebay.

I agree that many would not care about the plating but there are others that would not be interested in the stamp because it was not plated. A PF certificate on the 1c Franklin with no plate position would not be as desirable to me. I would value a TFA certificate more than I would a PF certificate in that case. Cost is cheaper and it gives more information and verifies the plate position. PF would just be guessing without a plate position. There is no way to tell if the top line is broken or not. I will bet if you check the auction sale prices on two nearly identical stamps with one plated and one not, the plated one will have shown a higher final sell price. IF PF does not plate it, then they are guessing some of the time.

I agree - 74L4.

I presume you mean a 1c Plating Archive certificate. While the plating may be more information than you would sometimes get on a PF cert, faults frequently go undetected or unmentioned. Condition is vastly more important than plating. Also, the break and clear D-relief characteristics are visible at top. The PF could, and very likely would, identify the stamp without having to guess. Every one of the 40 D relief positions are either a Type III or IIIa.

Agreed - once you've identified the Relief and Plate, which is not hard to do here, that often gives you the type implicitly. The D relief is broken at the top on the relief, and you can see the bottom easily here, and its not broken. Hence Ty IIIA. Plating is just a bonus here.

There are plenty of Plate 4 stamps that had the bottom line wear and break over time. They would start life as Ty IIIA's and evolve into Ty III. For those you do need to be able to see the bottom line in order to determine the type that it is. If you can't see it, you have to assume its Ty IIIA (the cheaper, original-for-the-position, variety).

Some positions are always broken at the bottom on plate 4, in addition to the top. For those, if you cannot see the bottom, but you can definitely plate it, then you can determine that it is a Ty III. Of course its worth a whole lot less than a Ty III where you can visibly see both breaks.