3c Pink Color Challenge

Ummm... reduction doesn't change iron into lead.

??? Lead??? Rust changes back to iron.
Don

Since different monitors and scanners will all show us different color if we aren't synchronized the same, it's funny but the original image bye the OP, looks completely different to me now than the image in the analysis.

Still the best way to find pink, rose pink, pbpink, is to have a copy in daylight or optimal lighting, compared with known or certified copies.

A bunch of times I think something is rose pink, only to find that it's rose salmon, and sometimes it's really difficult to distinguish between the two hues...is that better, Don? #128513;

Ray
Go man go!
Don

Earlier from Stamperix: "..and the pigeon blood pink has then some blue wash maybe?

what about the difference in the lack of color between the upper left "3" and the pattern/network below, is this still seen as an indicator for pink vs. rose"

Some additional comments here. If you were to go to any of the articles about pink and Pigeon Blood pink that were printed in the chronicle written by Mike McClung you'll find that there's an awful lot of opinion that Pigeon Blood pink has blue and then when they are trying to figure out what Ashbrook was looking at when he first called it Pigeon Blood pink it is thought that he was comparing the hue to the Pigeon Blood Ruby. I posted about this a couple of times in the past and you'll find all of this in the Chronicle. If Ashbrook did compare the color with the Pigeon Blood Ruby, then there would be a lot of certified PBP's which are actually lavender pink that would no longer be certifiable as PBP.

The colors/hues of the 3c 1861 that are defined by Mike McClung in the Chronicle, include Pink, Carmine Pink, Lavender Pink, and PBP. He also goes on to state that a lot of stamps that have been certified as PBP, are actually either lavender pink or carmine pink.

So, the wash would not ever be blue but if there is some blue in the stamp that is pink, depending on who certifies it, the stamp could be any of the three that I just mentioned.

As to the lack of a border, McClung does definitely mention that but there is also a known lack of a border in pinkish Rose and deep pinkish Rose. Both of those stamps are Pinker than rose pink, and more difficult to find than rose pink but they are 65's. I'm doing this from my phone and I just bought the Deep pinkish Rose on ebay about a month ago from Jack Daley, and it's a beautiful stamp by the way, and I'll post something on it a little later.

Hope this was helpful, Ray

I guess the question is whether we are trying to look at a stamp today and say whether it was printed with an ink that had a certain color 100 years ago or whether we are tying ti look at a stamp today and say what color is the ink today. If the latter, then today's chemical composition of the ink will define that color (possibly just the surface layer down to some depth which would depend on how absorbing the ink is).

Personally, I would never spend big PBP money on some color that is so close to other colors of the issue that I need an expert to tell me whether I have the real deal or not.

Hello Ray, thank you. Of course your answers are always helpful.

I know those articles and they were the reason for my questions, and the las I know is tsome time ago (2012) and didn't mention all aspects of the 3c 1861 as it was more about color in general.

I read the articles a bit different than you. McClung writes about the Pigeon Blood Pink and the "ruby":
"Pigeon blood pink is a definable color that can be confirmed by comparison with reliable reference copies. One such reliable reference copy is shown in Figure 21; it is a ruby pink stamp with a Philatelic Foundation certificate stating it is Scott #64a, pigeon blood pink. "
So he also thinks that the Pigeon Blood Pink has some important part of ruby and I don't get what is (beside the shown stamp) the difference between the definitions of McClung and Ashbrook, I read it more that he is ok with him and not ok with the more recent definitions of "pink with blue".

About Pink and the "3" and the ink there: in the article of 1989 McClung shows the area and writes about it (more than in any later article). He says: "There is contrast and sometimes an absence of color" between the 3 and the latticework in many pink. He continues that it is known also on other shades but not on the other "pinkish shades from 1863". So I read it like for the most difficult stamps to tell apart this is indeed a good hint. I suppose here that the contrast mentioned is what you called "border" (and not "lack of border").

Maybe you could write a short answer about all that to learn more. I am not saying that I am the expert on this, just want to understand the articles of McClung and your thoughts as you have much knowledge about this. And to come back to this thread it would also be interesting what tells us all that about the look under magnification of a 3c 1816 for a possible Pigeon Blood Pink, maybe you know something about it or know what McClung knows. If it's not blue wash, maybe "real ruby wash"?

Stagedew
Someday it would be interesting to try the RGB code process on a certified variety against one you own also, using a standardized set-up for the photo (lighting, etc) to see the range in RGB values. For issues like Scott 64 with several identified hues it might be interesting to also try a photo using UV light and channel switching of the RGB values (Red values for Green, Green for Blue, etc.) which, though it will significantly change the visual color, might differentiate the slight hue changes more to help ID the particular hue. The results would only provide potential RGB ranges though as comparing a shade on a computer monitor with back lighting against one in hand would be virtually impossible. Sort of like comparing the color of a persons shirt while they're standing in the shade to they're standing in the sun.

Still, it might be worth a try to establish RGB value ranges of hues if the parameters are simple enough to be replicated by others.

Every pixel has a different RGB value.
Don