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India Four 4 Annas (1854)

 
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Pillar Of The Community

Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
1131 Posts
Posted 01/23/2019   11:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add filipo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Any idea which issue (plate?) this one could be?

Or is it possibly a fake?

It has a nice, visible watermark (I can say only that!)

Thanks!

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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
1255 Posts
Posted 01/24/2019   05:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tim H to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The obliteration makes me feel uneasy. Is it yours? If so, get a recognised expert opinion.
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Edited by Tim H - 01/24/2019 05:07 am
Pillar Of The Community
India
557 Posts
Posted 01/24/2019   05:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


This is absolutely genuine Br. India 1854 4A Vic. head die II (worn out) frame die I wide setting 2nd printing blue and red bicolored lithograph (SG 19) from position R3/3(11).

Postmark: It is Renouf/Cooper type 2 barred rhombic obliterator with 9 bars (introduced in 10/1854), almost certainly used in Mumbai Circle, most likely in Mumbai GPO where it was mostly used.
The diagonals should measure either 2.6cm×1.9cm or 2.7cm×2cm.

Stray examples of type 2 cancels have also been recorded used in Chennai Circle in Bengaluru and Lingasuguru and in North West Provinces Circle in Jalandhar.
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
1255 Posts
Posted 01/24/2019   08:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tim H to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Joy, thanks for the info about the obliteration.
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Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
1131 Posts
Posted 01/24/2019   4:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mr. Joy Daschaudhuri, thank you so much for this extended expertize and your always valued opinion. Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this forum!

@ Tim, thank you for the tips... I have also been highly doubt about this stamp, particulary because the obliteration... however, it looks that sometimes a first impress can be totally wrong.

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Edited by filipo - 01/24/2019 4:41 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
1131 Posts
Posted 01/24/2019   7:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am just curious - is a misplaced printing of the center (like in this one) something which is nice to be seen or something which is charaterized as "bad centered" or similar (as in later issues) and making it a worse example?

Or that detail is not important at all - I am asking particularly for this issue of 4 Annas from 1854?
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 01/25/2019   10:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Further reading
"The East India Company and Crappy Old Collections"

https://goscf.com/t/16192
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Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
1131 Posts
Posted 01/25/2019   1:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Rod! I am just curious is this kind of wrong centering of the queen something which makes the stamp better or less desirable?

I know that cut-to-shape is not attractive, just as in other similar issues worldwide, but people usually think that that kind of trimming have been done always later by collectors... however, I have seen some examples when this trimming to cut-to-shape has be done in the start - by the original sender back in the time - used examples of cut-to-shape on cover exist.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 01/25/2019   6:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
which makes the stamp better or less desirable?


Opinion filipo,
depends on the owner I guess. I like it, because it is genuine.
You are looking at factual evidence of real production with all its eccentricities.
I was always drawn to young ladies that didn't wear makeup.
Just a matter of taste.

I think your stamp is a cracker. What I find amazing is the accuracy of the trimming, almost perfect.


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Pillar Of The Community
India
557 Posts
Posted 01/28/2019   2:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@filipo

Quote:

I am just curious is this kind of wrong centering of the queen something which makes the stamp better or less desirable?


The most important criteria of Br. India 4A lithographs are the margin and the condition.
Off-center head is not a factor.

The standard condition of Br. India 1854 4A wide setting lithographs is defined as ones which are cut-square having margins at least 2-2.5mm at 4 sides (top, bottom, right, left) from the outermost framelines of the stamps.
This parameter also applies to cut-to-shape stamps but measured from all 8 sides.

Ref. Specialised Catalogue of Early India Lithographs 1854-55
Ed. Lionel Edward Dawson and Evelyn Arthur Smythies.
Civil and Military Gazette Press, Lahaur 1933 2nd Ed.
Introductory Note; p.1
The Four Annas; p.13
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Pillar Of The Community
India
557 Posts
Posted 01/28/2019   2:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Br. India 1854-55 4A lithographs were printed in 2 separate operations since these were bicolored stamps.

First, the frames were printed from red-colored stone on wet paper which was then set aside to get dried and on the following day, the head alongwith the corner rosettes and ornaments, marginal inscriptions and the wavy separating line (in case of wide setting stamps) were all printed at the same time from a single blue-colored stone.

Complete sheet of Br. India 1854 4A Vic. head die I frame die I 1st printing wide setting lithograph (SG 18)



Even though guiding marks were used, displacement of heads are common in this issue.

As the blue stones printed the marginal inscriptions, it may be thus mentioned that the so-called Br. India 1854 4A head die I frame die I inverted head stamps (SG 18a) are actually with inverted frames.
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