Confessions Of A Catalog Lemming

I admit it; I was a Catalog Lemming for several decades, basing my collecting methods upon some unknown publishers organization and logic. I was blindly following 'what I collected' and 'how I collected' entirely created on someone else's reasoning and judgement. In retrospect I suppose there was justification, this was the traditional thing to do and seemed to be expected from many whom I communicated with as I was learning the hobby.

But with the advent of the internet I began to feel a disturbing creative restriction. Forking over significant amounts of money each year for the newest catalogs (and album pages) felt more and more like I was somehow enslaved to publishers who seemed more interested in getting my money than supporting my collecting. I began to consider more in depth why I was buying catalogs. In my opinion stamp catalogs have two primary purposes; to assign stamp values and identify stamps.

But as we all know in the post-internet age, catalog values virtually never reflect actual market values. While catalog values can be used in a relative way to better understand a stamp's worth, far more often than not they have little relationship to actual market value. But as I began working more with assisting less experienced hobbyists the downside of this situation became crystal clear; catalog values were setting unrealistic expectations. They opened the door and conveniently supported unrealistic online listings for stamps. Inexperienced hobbyists see a listing for a stamp catalog value of $10, buy it for $5 and think they were getting a bargain. Only when the less experienced hobbyist joined an online forum or went to a dealer were they told a harsh reality, that they paid over the actual market value. Catalog values create frustration and are a barrier to entry into our hobby. The message we are sending to new hobbyists is… go buy a $700 set of catalogs but you will still need special knowledge to understand actual market values. Not exactly a message that is optimal for a new hobbyist to hear; most folks would like to know the market value of what they are collecting.

Perhaps the saving grace of catalogs is in the identification of stamps but the internet has also had a significant impact on this too. In our new online connected world we are all communicating with collectors from every corner of the planet. There is no single catalog that is universally accepted so we are struggling with disparate catalog numbers and other identifiers as we try to communicate across multinational (and multilingual) lines. Even closely related catalogs such as Scott and Unitrade (i.e. https://goscf.com/t/69678&whichpage=2 ) cause communication problems between collectors.

So if both the catalog values and the identification numbering of catalogs are 'less than ideal' (putting it very mildly) then what is the purpose of being a 'Catalog Lemming'? Have we fallen into the trap of liking the annual catalog value increases since it makes us feel like we have made good investments? Is it a good idea to tell new hobbyists to go buy catalogs when we know that the values will set unrealistic expectations and that they will struggle with communicating with other collectors across the globe? With the lack of decent digital catalog versions does it make sense that we should be cutting down trees to print huge catalogs which also have a huge shipping carbon footprint (as they travel from printer to publisher, from publisher to reseller, from reseller to hobbyist)?

Many folks spend large amounts of time and effort explaining to new hobbyists market values and identification methods as they start their journey into our hobby. What is needed is a truly universally accepted digital catalog that has fairly accurate market values and a single comprehensive numbering system. Ideally this would be an 'open source' effort that would be freely available to anyone who wanted to use it.

But until something like this is developed, I have stopped being a Catalog Lemming. I no longer buy new catalogs nor do I recommend new catalogs to new hobbyists. Our hobby has undergone a dramatic change and this has broken my blind obedience to the catalog publishers.
Don

Yea, verily! Verily!

Agree with every word. Is there any work being done anywhere on a digital catalog? Any incentive for a commercial or non-profit organization to undertake such a massive effort?

I understand the sentiment, and it is well-intentioned, but the cure may be worse than the disease. I question the validity of an open source wiki approach to values. So instead of just a few people with agendas determining values, ANYONE with a basket of issue X to sell will be able to make it "valuable"?

Anyone who takes catalog values (ANY catalog) and percentages thereof as gospel is a fool. The reality of catalog values has always been far more nuanced.

The problem has never been the catalogs themselves; they are useful and necessary references... the problem is how people use them and treat the information in them.

Telling collectors to eschew all catalogs can actually do them a disservice, in my opinion, as there is much useful information in them beyond simply values. They establish a baseline of comparative information and specifications.

As someone who is relatively new to collecting and on the younger side of the spectrum, I would love to see a digital alternative to the current state. Anyone comparing catalog values to ebay, for example, would immediately notice that listed prices are wildly off. I mainly use catalogs for stamp identification and value the ability to flip through the "identifier" section. There would have to be some ownership of the process, however, to ensure the website is of sufficient quality to attract new collectors.

A lucid, intelligent, well thought out post that I agree with and find myself guilty of the some of the same practices. I do occasionally purchase a Scott specialized catalog, more for identity of stamps and varieties. I started designing my own pages about 10 years ago as I became dissatisfied with the various offerings for U.S. stamps and plate number coils.

Is anyone aware of a working group to create a digital worldwide catalog? If not, is anybody interested in starting one?

There are a number of websites that have tried this sort of initiative, although I don't know how many had large groups of people working on the effort as opposed to just the website owner and one or two other people...

I use SMQ values and purchase, trade and sell graded stamps for the most part and do not experience the valuation conflicts that arise between traditional catalog values and market prices. Of course a lot of the disparity is due to one person valuing a stamp as XF when it is no such thing. Another is "overlooking" faults. One more is the old chestnut of identifying a stamp as it's higher valued look alike. You still need to be in tune with the market and do a lot of research. Thankfully the internet provides a ton of information albeit fragmented at times. I realize that it becomes more complicated when dealing with US revenues and cancellations as well as other items.

My statement above only applies to United States stamps since I am not aware of any SMQ type valuations for other Countries with the exception of perhaps Canada.

That is actually one of the pros of dealing with graded items; market values tend to fluctuate far less than non-graded items. This is also true with coins (probably more so), where a PCGS MS64RD 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent will have far less extremes in market value than a nongraded coin. There still will be some due to (1) the age of the holder, i.e., what era the slab was graded, and (2) toning, lustre, and other aesthetic attributes beyond the numeric grade.

Valuation is not easy when it comes to collectibles. It will NEVER be simple, regardless of whether it is in a printed catalog or on an open-source wiki. There's no such thing as "just one value".

This is how I describe "retail value" for U.S. revenue stamps on my website:




... and that's just one collector's criteria.

I think it would take some 'big fish' to make this happen; I had hopes that the Philatelic Union Catalog effort might set into place some standardization but it turned out to just be a 'merge' of existing philatelic library data as opposed to building a standard or metadata specification that everyone followed.

But if any of the larger type organizations like APS, Royal, or ASDA were to rally the troops I think it might be possible to establish a global catalog numbering system. Doing this kind of thing would be not only great optics but also ensure relevancy moving into the future for any organization(s). But the downside, and why this would never happen with a major organization, would be that they would damage their relationship with the existing catalog publishers.

A possible solution for keeping existing catalog legacy moving forward would be to develop a nice online worldwide cross reference. The bad news with this idea is that even a whisper of 'cross reference' causes instant legal demand letters and saber rattling.

Frankly if an open source specification were to be published, defining how to build a stamp catalog number, everyone in the world could follow it. No matter how specialized a type of stamp might be, no matter the number of varieties, a flexible stamp numbering specification could be written to cover how they get assigned numbers. This kind of 'smart' stamp numbering would allow everyone to easily ID the stamp number components. For example, the first two characters might represent the country code.

I tried to promote this kind of thing about 6 years ago but it got no traction; but it is fun to think about and fantasize about how much it might help our hobby.
Don

I was probably 9 or 10 years old when I learned that catalogue values were a joke. (my Dad was a collector) In the UK I have always assumed that any collector discovers catalogue values are not realistic in their first month of collecting. I find a printed catalogue is useful for identifying stamps, and learning how to identify the stamps. I have wandered away from a set catalogue in my Term and Phrase collection where I collect things that are examples of types of stamp: revenues, postage dues, seahorses. But to discover what stamps there are that meet this specification. I end up using more catalogues.I find the order of Stanley Gibbons catalogues useful but they are an aid to my collecting not my master. I started my adult collecting with a SG Windsor album but I use pages of my own creation and sometimes decide my pages are wrong and make another.

Seems to me that taking a catalog digital (say, Scott's Specialized US) might be a useful first step. Worry about a more rational numbering system and more realistic valuations later. Put it behind a paywall. Maybe there would be little or no interest, especially if it is not free, but maybe the market would tell the publishers a different tale. At some point catalog publishers will have to take this step. Why not take a baby step now, and see what happens? I suspect such an experiment might eventually lead publishers to some of the other excellent ideas put forward in this thread.

I find catalogues indispensable for identification etc. Unless my interests change, the ones I have will see me out - a bunch of Maury and Yvert for the French area plus a heap of mostly older specialised publications, old SG Europe and Commonwealth, some SG GB Specialised. Most of these cost me very little. Am I interested in some sort of international super-catalogue? Not really - and if it were based on, say, the Scott ordering system, I'm sure many others wouldn't be either.

I do not see why most collectors need to purchase new catalogs on a regular basis unless one collects new issues. I have a set of Scott's 2016/2017. No organization is likely to lead any effort and doubt any group can reach a consensus on some numbering system. Just look at the catalog numbering systems for GB Machin stamps.

The cost of catalogs have to be a negative. You can give a novice collector 1000 worldiwde stamps and then they have to get catalogs to identify them.

Stampworld.com (in exchange for any email address) works for me helping my identify issues so I can actually find them in the catalog.

All,
Most of the 'old school' collectors like myself cut their teeth on hard copy catalogs, but this thread is more about looking forward not looking in the rear view mirror. No one can argue that the identification value of old hard copy catalogs has been greatly impacted by the ease and speed of online resources (like this community). And no one can really argue that the delta between catalog values and actual market values is insignificant and does not present challenges for new hobbyists.

The catalog publishers are impacted if collectors do not often buy catalogs. Once again here is significant change within our hobby; second hand catalogs are easily found and purchased online. The traditional catalog publishing market counted on many collectors making annual purchases but the storm clouds on the horizon could be lining up to become a perfect storm for specialty hobby publishers.
Don

A catalog is a useful tool. Like any tool, it can be misused, misinterpreted, or used for the wrong purposes, legal or moral. Also like most tools, it helps to learn how to use them properly. These arguments have been going on for decades, and will continue to do so.