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KGV Sideface Colours

 
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Canada
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Posted 11/23/2019   5:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add itma to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I recently received a copy of the ACSC King George catalogue (Sections 3, 4 and 5) and note that the colours have been grouped under new names. In the past, have used my father's collection as as a reference for colours which broadly match my older versions of ACSC, one from the 1980s and the other from the 1990s.)

Does anyone know of a document which says which old colour names are included in the new colour names? Alternatively, can anyone suggest a set of colour references? I have an old SG colour reference but never found it particularly useful as it did not contain many shades of any one colour.
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Australia
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Posted 11/23/2019   6:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Is there nothing in the new catalogue offering some sort of cross reference to the old groupings? That would be quite strange if they just changed it all up and offered collectors no guide.....
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Posted 11/23/2019   7:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add itma to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I looked through the new catalogue but couldn't see anything. Of course, there is more than 20 years between the new version and my 1990s version so I really don't know when these changes were made and if an explanation was given at that time. There is a study of the 1d reds on glebecoin.net but this on my initial read it seems more of a comparison of Orlo Smith and SG colour names, and the authors view of things. But, while this is the most complex of the values, it is just one of the many values of the side faces.I am continuing my search but hoped that perhaps an SCF member has taken this road before now and can offer a shortcut.

Some of the changes are no-brainer. For example, where red, pale red and deep red have been listed separately, they are now listed as Red (pale to deep). I started using the new catalogue for the 1d green issues, Moss and Sage Green have disappeared, at least partially, and a new colour Blue-Green has been added. So does the new colour include both of the old colours or does one now go under the more basic colours? (I'm writing this from memory so colour names may be incorrect but this is the gist of my problem.)
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Posted 11/24/2019   3:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add itma to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is there nothing in the new catalogue offering some sort of cross reference to the old groupings? That would be quite strange if they just changed it all up and offered collectors no guide.....


Bobby:

Here's B+W's response received today:


Quote:

You are right insofar as virtually all of the catalogue listings have been revised or rewritten, including in many cases the lists of shades. Most of these have been prepared by experts in their field. Unfortunately, there is no listing to correlate the new listings with the old ones, although in most cases they can be matched. In some cases additional new shades are listed, and a very few have been omitted. Good luck with collecting.


So they don't have a cross-reference of old to new catalogue numbers. I am going back to them to see if they have an old to new COLOR cross-reference.
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Edited by itma - 11/24/2019 3:11 pm
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Australia
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Posted 11/24/2019   3:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks itma,

KGV sidefaces are not my area of expertise by any measure, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to rip up established norms like that. There must've been a method to what they were thinking? Or maybe they thought it was time for an overhaul? Happens periodically.
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Edited by Bobby De La Rue - 11/24/2019 3:34 pm
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Posted 11/24/2019   4:37 pm  Show Profile Check KGV Collector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
After trying many times to work out KGV shades my biggest find is that the "shade" come in shade groupings with a single colour name not a single shade.

Yes there are some shades that are very consistent in colour but it is not the norm with KGV shades.

So confusion comes when naming a shade because it is a lighter/darker shade but it is still the same colour.
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Posted 11/24/2019   5:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add itma to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's not just lighter/darker (or paler/deeper) but also duller/brighter. Using the CMYK colour model, my understanding is that lighter/darker keeps the same basic colour with all values moving in proportion, while on the duller/brighter axis the CMY values may change in proportion but the K value acts independently.

B+W use both pale/deep and and dull/bright in their colour names.

I think I'm coming to grips with the changes in ACSC and it now seems to be a simplification. They now say, e.g. using the 1d Green sideface:

Pale Green, Green and Deep Green become Green (pale to deep) unless one of these shades has a different value.

Green (shades) to include Sage Green under the same conditions

Moss Green where the value is significantly different from others grouped in Green (shades).

Fortunately, on my initial reading, they don't seem to have changed anything for the 1d Red sideface. That still use all the letters from A to Z for colour identification.


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