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US Meter Mail With Great Britain Stamps

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Valued Member

United States
166 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   12:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Kelump to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Can anyone help me understand what happened on this piece?

Was it sent from New York using a postage meter and then marked postage due in Great Britain which was paid with Great Britain stamps (Scott 527 and 567 vertical pair)?

I think I can read "Golders Green" on the postmark with 1968 as the year.

Thanks!

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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   02:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
GOLDERS GREEN B.O. NWll
Looks like a new discovery for the database, being a "BO" Branch Office
if that is what I think I read.

The rest is a mystery, look forward to what the experts say
Looks like a "surcharge" Pitney Bowes
Perhaps additional info is beneath the stamps?


https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Unite...le_in_center
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Edited by rod222 - 01/05/2022 03:09 am
Pillar Of The Community
Israel
1220 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   03:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Can it be a used envelope from the US reused by the recipient?
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Valued Member
United States
166 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   07:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kelump to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rod222, thanks for the link. This looks like type IA4.1.

I can see B.O.N.W.II in the postmark.

Rob Roy, I think a reused envelope is possible but I wonder if the meter stamp was invalid without a date.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   07:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
but I wonder if the meter stamp was invalid without a date.


I read it differently, with surcharges they can appear Blank ?

The only guess I could make, (completely ignorant of US meters)
Is that is was sent from the UK, but was deficient of 10c as it arrived in the US.
(which appears absurd)

Genuinely excited to see what the experts say.
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United States
692 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   09:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jarnick to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I suggest that the 10c paid the US customs clearance fee on the package.
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6329 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   09:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
i agree with Jarnick's thinking.

While it is extremely hard to evaluate the "postal history" aspects of a mere piece, it makes sense to me the typical postage due amounts on most mail will be small. Thus It is far more likely this originated where the most postage was paid (Great Britain) and went to the smaller amount (U.S.). A 10 cent customs fee is a reasonable direction to take although I have not looked up the fee schedule at that time. If so, it is still an unusual way of marking it.

Also: Undated meters are valid. The ones I have seen most often are on 3rd class mail and on metered prepaid return mail to courthouses for things like jury duty.
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Edited by John Becker - 01/05/2022 09:18 am
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Israel
1220 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   11:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
From the spacing on the envelope it seems that the US marking came first: The British stamps are placed so that either they came as close to the top as possible AFTER the US, or the sender left space in advance. I think I see at the top folding markings that it was indeed the edge of the envelope.
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United States
790 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   11:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add m and m to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
while it is not my area isn't green is an unusual color for a meter stamp? the only time I recall seeing it was for US postage due meter strips some time ago.
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United States
7239 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   11:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I believe Rob Roy is correct in stating that it was a re-used. It was a lighter envelope when first used, and was a heavier piece when re-used.
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Valued Member
United States
166 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   11:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kelump to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Is there a good way to determine if the black postmark is over top of the green meter stamp? It looks like it is but I understand that can be hard to evaluate.
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United States
1106 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   11:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Green is not the most common ink color but Pitney-Bowes meters can be seen with eight different ink colors.

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Unite...fluorescence

Dan


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Valued Member
United States
25 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   12:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ckildegaard to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely not anything that I'm well-versed in, so I won't try to guess what happened here. But I'm finding everyone's hypotheses very interesting. Thanks for bringing up this piece!
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Valued Member
United States
166 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   12:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kelump to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with it likely being reused as well. Although I would have expected the sender to apply the new postage over top of the meter postage.
Also, would 10 cents be correct to mail an item that was probably bigger than a standard envelope?

I wondered about the possibility of postage due in Great Britain because of the handwritten 13/6. Is there any significance to that?

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United Kingdom
8582 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   12:58 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
13/6 is what the stamps come to. Unlikely that a PO would have used standard issues as postage dues.
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Netherlands
6530 Posts
Posted 01/05/2022   1:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As GeoffHa remarks, the stamps add to 13/6.
The 13/6 is neatly placed in the void of the metre mark. This could suggest the metre mark was applied first and 13/6 written afterwards.
With postage affixed being 13/6, one could question whether this is a date (13 June).
Would an American clerk have written 13/6 or 6/13? If 6/13, why would an English clerk have added a date if the stamps were cancelled with a CDS?

The commemorative stamps were issued 19 May 1968, and the 10/- castle replaced from 5 March 1969. So, a date mid-1968 is likely.

Normally, Postage Due would have been collected by the postman after affixing to pay labels for the amount due.
10/6 paid for a parcel of 22lb. So, this is a lot of postage.

Could it be the item was too bulky or heavy for the postman to be carried on his round? Could the post office have notified the recipient there was a parcel for which payment was due? The recipient may have collected the item after affixing the amount due in stamps bought at the office.

Maybe this was carried from the US to Heathrow by someone flying into London and been handed in to the post office for express delivery or onward transmission.

I doubt this item was sent from the UK to the USA: too many coincidences.
I would not dismiss the postage due theory.
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Edited by NSK - 01/05/2022 1:52 pm
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