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Valued Member
United Kingdom
220 Posts |
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Talking of old fashioned stamp shops: Quote:
I grew up buying stamps from the old time stamp dealers these are the old farts from Chicago and specially New York City . Back in the day they were good they could scam any new collector and they had years of learning how to do it and even built up a relation with those they conn-ed . The customers would come back to spend more money ,yes the old dealers knew their stuff . There was a UK shop where customers were shown Gibbons catalogues with prices of UK presentation packs, which of course had dramatically increased from the ancient editions of the catalogues to the latest editions of Gibbons. The shop tried to sell you "rare" presentation packs as an investment. They had the spiel perfected, and I am yet to see such a dramatic increase in market values of UK presentation packs as the shop got you to believe! Catalogue values may go up, market prices may not! |
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Valued Member
United States
464 Posts |
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I have always thought that getting "screwed " was part and parcel of the anonymous online markets. Floortrader has dissuaded me of that thought.
In another thread concerning fraudulent Forever stamps a member posted that he attended a stamp show, where a vendor had coils of Forever flags, I believe he wrote. He looked at them and said to the vendor "they are all fake". The vendor replied, "I know, I'm just trying to get rid of them", with a smile. My brain screamed thief; until I remembered" Judge not, least you be judged" . That was a thieving action is all that I could say.
It is a buyer beware world unfortunately.
Happy Sunday, on our journey . Cheers Mark |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
4309 Posts |
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Quote:
said to the vendor "they are all fake". The vendor replied, "I know, I'm just trying to get rid of them" The fakes ARE Scott listed, so selling them as fakes is how one sells the Scott listed fakes. How would you market your known fakes? |
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Valued Member
United States
464 Posts |
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For clarification, As I recall the OP stated they were being sold for postage.
There really is no money in fake forevers, unless being hustled for postage
Not 5 rolls anyway.
Cheers m |
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10632 Posts |
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The time will come when some dealer somewhere will start selling fake forever stamps as collectibles. It's just a matter of time. |
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Valued Member
Norway
450 Posts |
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Quote:
Sounds like a lot of crying is going on here......The big problem in the hobby is not even being discussed here ..... I grew up buying stamps from the old time stamp dealers these are the old farts from Chicago and specially New York City . Back in the day they were good they could scam any new collector and they had years of learning how to do it and even built up a relation with those they conn-ed . The customers would come back to spend more money ,yes the old dealers knew their stuff . Another cheerful, uplifting post from flootrader. |
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Moderator
United States
12330 Posts |
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10632 Posts |
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Whoever buys, sells, exchanges, transfers, receives, or delivers any false, forged, counterfeited, or altered obligation or other security of the United States, WITH THE INTENT THAT THE SAME BE PASSED, PUBLISHED, OR USED AS TRUE OR GENUINE, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
Collecting them or listing them clearly as counterfeit collectibles does not fall under that category.
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Moderator
United States
12330 Posts |
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Quote:
§501. Postage stamps, postage meter stamps, and postal cards
Whoever forges or counterfeits any postage stamp, postage meter stamp, or any stamp printed upon any stamped envelope, or postal card, or any die, plate, or engraving thereof; or
Whoever makes or prints, or knowingly uses or sells, or possesses with intent to use or sell, any such forged or counterfeited postage stamp, postage meter stamp, stamped envelope, postal card, die, plate, or engraving; or
Whoever makes, or knowingly uses or sells, or possesses with intent to use or sell, any paper bearing the watermark of any stamped envelope, or postal card, or any fraudulent imitation thereof; or
Whoever makes or prints, or authorizes to be made or printed, any postage stamp, postage meter stamp, stamped envelope, or postal card, of the kind authorized and provided by the Post Office Department or by the Postal Service, without the special authority and direction of the Department or Postal Service; or
Whoever after such postage stamp, postage meter stamp, stamped envelope, or postal card has been printed, with intent to defraud, delivers the same to any person not authorized by an instrument in writing, duly executed under the hand of the Postmaster General and the seal of the Post Office Department or the Postal Service, to receive it
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 713; Pub. L. 91375, §6(j)(6), Aug. 12, 1970, 84 Stat. 777; Pub. L. 91448, §1(a), Oct. 14, 1970, 84 Stat. 920; Pub. L. 103322, title XXXIII, §330016(1)(G), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.) Don |
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Bedrock Of The Community
12569 Posts |
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You can do three things when a seller intentionally misleads or defrauds a buyer. Call out the seller, call out the buyer or call both of them out. Only one makes any sense in a functional society with a rule of law and it isn't the last two. In a world where even a person's gender is up for debate, I am not surprised that the choice has become ambiguous to some. |
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Valued Member
256 Posts |
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Mystic already sells counterfeit Forevers ( example) with the statement it is ok to buy/sell/own them as long as you don't use them for postage. They are also on hipstamp. But not ebay (at least not using the word counterfeit). Somewhere (maybe etsy? or mercari?) I saw someone selling huge lots of counterfeit Forevers with the wink wink nudge nudge disclaimer that they are only for collectors and not to be used for postage. |
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Moderator
United States
12330 Posts |
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So I can sell counterfeit Gucci handbags as long as I sell them to handbag collectors and not to anyone who wants to use them as handbags?
Don
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
8434 Posts |
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There is two measures to concider when going to court and the government will take action . The first is what your paying or selling the stamp for . The case that went to court was a 2 cent stamp which was fake and the seller was selling it for $10.00 ,the agurement, was nobody was buying a $10.00 stamp to defraud the Post Office for 2 cents . Another case was where a person was selling 50 cent stamps for 20 cents each ,this was the case where the government won the case because it was cheating the Post Office because it was 5,000 stamps in one transaction and that was not a collector who needed that many . So the law is on the books but it is how the buyer and seller actions are to determine if cheating the government of revenue involued . |
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10632 Posts |
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"with intent to defraud" is still part of 501. That is still the key phrase. |
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10632 Posts |
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Quote:
So I can sell counterfeit Gucci handbags as long as I sell them to handbag collectors and not to anyone who wants to use them as handbags? This may come as a shock, but stamps are not handbags. Postage stamps have one original purpose, and collectors do not always use them for that original purpose. As long as a counterfeit stamp is being held as a collectible, and not used for that original purpose, there is no fraud if it is called a counterfeit when sold. Or if a catalog lists them as such. |
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Replies: 51 / Views: 4,086 |
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Posted 03/27/2022 08:57 am
