Help With GB One Penny Red ID

No, they're not the same thing. They're different plates.

For plates 178 to 204, you'll have to look under C2 (perforated penny stars) in the QV specialised catalogue.

In essence there are the penny 'stars' stamps die I, then die II, then the stamps with letters in all four corners. The first type was used both for the Penny Black an the Penny Red. Some old plates of die I were used for separation trials. From 1854, sheets of stamps were officially perforated.

Sheets from plates 155 to 204 were perforated. The imprimatur sheets as the word tells (to be printed), were kept for reference purposes. Imprimatur sheets were not perforated. Also, since stamps from plates 155 to 177 earlier had been issued imperforate, the imprimatur sheets already existed. Operationally, perforation did not make a new stamp. Philatelically, it did.

Other than being printed from different plates, the stamps from plates 132 and 204, essentially, are the same. Plate 132 always is imperforate, 204 always perforate. Plate 155 exists both perforate and imperforate.

Philatelically and operationally stamps are not always categorised in the same way.

IMPRIMATUR Singletons, on sale Wednesday 17th December 1975
Robson Lowe Ltd
Pall Mall
Sale Nos 4016-4017

Average price per item for the penny reds £30 - £40 each.

Thank you all for the clarification. What was confusing me was that the SG catalog and the website screenshots are showing the same alphabet 1, die 1, and stamp type but different plate ranges. The SG cat lists plates 132-177 while the GBPS site shows plates 132-204.

Finally, I see the penny black registration sheets that were used for both reds and blacks on the GBPS. But some seem to be missing - Is plate 1b the one listed as 27 Apr 1840? Also, where are 9, 10 and 11? Do these exist for download?

Excuse brevity and typos - on a phone.

There are no true plates 1a and 1b. Plate 1 was not hardened. It wore down quickly, hence the many greyish black stamps. It was repaired and hardened. The original plate is known as plate 1a, the repaired plate as 1b. The plate was registered again after repair on 27 April 1840. This, indeed, can be considered the registration sheet for plate 1b.

There are no records of registration sheets for plates 6, 7, 9, 10, and 11 having been submitted to Somerset House.

Hi Stamps4Life,

I don't know if those registration sheets are available for download.

Please see my post on page 3 for information and a link regarding plating the Penny Black

NSK - Tks much. And Bobby, you too. See your previous info also on page 3. Perfect.

@Bobby De La Rue,

The SG Specialised, Volume 1, remarks 'No imprimaturs of this plate have ever been recorded' directly following the first listings (printings in black, original state) of the stamps from plates 6, 7, 9, 10, and 11. The registration sheets have never existed, or were lost without any record of their existence coming to light.

Thanks for the info NSK I haven't done any real in-depth study of the Penny Black as I can't afford to buy them for plating purposes.

Happy to help Stamps4Life!

@NSK




Where is it? Are you referring to the Queen Victoria Vol1, Part1 Specialized Catalog? I'd like to mark it , but can't find the reference. Tks.

In the QV Specialised (16th edition), there is a note beneath the listings for each plate.

For example, on page 65 in the right hand column there is a note under the listings for S40 & S41 that says "No imprimaturs of this plate have ever been recorded".

Thanks. I e looked and looked in QV vol1 part 1 and didn't see it. I recall seeing something like that somewhere but can't remember where now. But, I've been reading a lot on this and have downloaded a lot of good but older [1930's, 1950&60's, etc] articles from the APS Research Library. I'm going to look at some more plates today for this stamp, then move on. Now, what about the color?? Haha.

Curious,
How many "points" would be a good representative of a positive ID?

What do you think? Good question. Id like to know.

I have no idea as im much a novice.

So far, I have:

2 votes for plate 124 - 1 from another board and I from Bobby
1 vote I doubt plate 124 from NSK
1 vote plate 125 from Bobby
1 vote for go through the 124 plates

so, net net = 1 for 124 and 1 for 125

Not exactly what I had in mind, I'm more referring to a personal checklist of things per ID
But I still like your idea.