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Portugal, Ceres, SC 260/Minr 265 Without Imprint?

 
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Posted 02/25/2023   5:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add EMaxim to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Anyone know of this stamp without the imprint (Stecherzeichen)?

(It could instead be SC 259/MiNr 221, though the stamp is actually less orange than it seems in these scans. The question remains in any case.)



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Posted 02/25/2023   5:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The imprint is there , they just used too much ink so it looks like part of the design .
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Posted 02/25/2023   6:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, floortrader. Makes sense, since there's no mention of a variant in any of my catalogues. Don't have anything specialized for Portugal, however, so figured I'd ask.
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Posted 02/25/2023   7:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add billsey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Doesn't look like 15x14 perf so likely 12x11½. Options are 1920 printing, on normal paper fine, medium or thick, 1920 printing on carton paper or 1920 printing on satin paper, fine, medium or thick. Note that 'normal' paper sometimes has the lozenges less distinctly that the lozenge mesh paper has, so if you can see lozenges when held up to a light it's normal paper rather than satin, but the lack of lozenges doesn't necessarily mean it's satin. Normal paper can also be bluish or with a waxed surface. The latter two and the carton paper are the ones with better catalog values.
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Posted 02/25/2023   9:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
billsey, glad you talked about the possibility of lozenge mesh paper. My copy of Michel mentions it (gerautetes Papier) for earlier series (e.g., 1892, King Carlos I), but not for any of the Ceres. Did many of those Ceres series include some on lozenge mesh? If so, I'll need to check what I have for that now as well. Always a new angle.

Also, Michel gives 1924 for the yellow 2C (MiNr 265). If my stamp is orange, MiNr 221 appears in a series described as 1917-24, but without a particular date for that stamp.
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Posted 02/26/2023   3:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add billsey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, there were lozenge mesh papers on the Ceres issues. In Portuguese it's pontinhado, which I had a heck of a time translating when I was working on Portugal. The last use that Afinsa points out is in the 1912 issues, perf 15x14. The orange 2c were a very yellow orange and that seems to match the color of the stamp you show. Mine are at http://billsey.seymourfamily.com/P/portugal01.htm and I believe I have most of them. Unfortunately it looks like I didn't complete my scanning for the country, so the newer ones aren't yet shown. Guess I'll have to take a few days and get the site updated.
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Edited by billsey - 02/26/2023 3:32 pm
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Posted 02/26/2023   4:19 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
billsey: could you explain what "lozenge" paper means in this context, please? Is it a watermark, or some other characteristic? Ta.
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Posted 02/27/2023   05:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know for sure, but probably something similar:

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Posted 02/27/2023   06:49 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Cupram - many thanks!
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Posted 02/28/2023   10:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add billsey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yep, a pretty good image showing the lozenges. Note as I said earlier, to be considered lozenge mesh the lozenges have to be clear and distributed evenly over the paper. If there are areas where it's less pronounced then it is more like the locally made paper, not the imported.
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