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Classic British Postmark

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Valued Member

Brazil
93 Posts
Posted 10/30/2023   9:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add cjac76 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello, everybody!

Would anyone have a book or catalog where this British postmark appears?

I only have this image and I would like to know the correct diameter of it…

Thanks!



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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7072 Posts
Posted 10/30/2023   10:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sure I do. I can check tomorrow. Whether I will have exact measurements, I can't say.

Do you have an example you're checking on?
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3282 Posts
Posted 10/30/2023   11:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The postmark should be in John Parmenter's London numeral cancellations book.
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Valued Member
Brazil
93 Posts
Posted 10/31/2023   07:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjac76 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Making a virtual montage, it fits perfectly in a postmark thats is on a Brazilian stamp used until 1850s.

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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3282 Posts
Posted 10/31/2023   3:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi cjac76,

See page 147 of Parmenter's pdf, Barred Numeral Cancellations of London, available here:

https://gbps.org.uk/information/dow...ications.php

It's a newspaper branch cancellation.

I'd be interested to know where your image comes from?

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Valued Member
Brazil
93 Posts
Posted 10/31/2023   6:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjac76 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Thank you, Bobby!

The image that I have came from this book…


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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6526 Posts
Posted 10/31/2023   7:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The image that I have came from this book


Interesting. What page? I went through that one. CTRL-F gives only one hit for 'Brentford' and it is on page 50. It, certainly, is not what you posted.


Quote:
Making a virtual montage, it fits perfectly in a postmark thats is on a Brazilian stamp used until 1850s.


They are quite different. A bar less. The Brazilian cancel is a wide oval, whereas the illustration is more oval along the vertical axis. The spacing between the fifth and sixth bars on the Brazilian stamp is much bigger.
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Edited by NSK - 10/31/2023 7:10 pm
Valued Member
Brazil
93 Posts
Posted 10/31/2023   10:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjac76 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Hello, NSK!

You're right. I thought it was from this book, but it's actually from "Billig's Handbook on Postmarks" Vol.9

About the montage, see the result:


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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3282 Posts
Posted 11/01/2023   12:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps the thread title should be renamed Classic Brazilian Postmark
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Edited by Bobby De La Rue - 11/01/2023 12:37 am
Valued Member
Brazil
93 Posts
Posted 11/01/2023   05:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjac76 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

No, Bobby. That's the problem…

The mute cancellations only starts in Brazil after 1866. And this stamps only was used until 1852…

So, this postmark had to be foreign.
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6526 Posts
Posted 11/01/2023   05:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As I said before, they do not match.

What tariff did the stamp cover?
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Edited by NSK - 11/01/2023 05:56 am
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3282 Posts
Posted 11/01/2023   3:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks cjac76.

I'll revert to Parmenter then.

What's your interest in this postmark? Is it on a stamp or cover you have, or have seen?
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Valued Member
Brazil
93 Posts
Posted 11/01/2023   11:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjac76 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

The stamp is mine, Bobby.

As it cannot be a Brazilian postmark, I would like to find out what its origin is…

This stamps were used only for domestic rate. So, if this postmark is really English, it is a great rarity…
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3282 Posts
Posted 11/02/2023   04:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks again cjac76.

Are you certain the stamp (and the postmark) are genuine?
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6526 Posts
Posted 11/02/2023   05:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If it is genuine, why the exotic explanation that a domestic rate stamp was used on an international letter, not cancelled until received abroad, and cancelled by the newspaper branch in London, rather than that someone found a 15-year old stamp and used it domestically?

Was the stamp invalidated by 1866?
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Valued Member
Brazil
93 Posts
Posted 11/02/2023   12:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjac76 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Thanks for your help…

The stamp is genuine, for sure…

The postmark has all the characteristics of genuine, but not being Brazilian, I can't say for sure...

Officially these stamps were only invalidated in the 1890s. But the last known specimen used in Brazil is from the early 1850s.

Look what I found in the book "Postal Cancellations of London"… mentions the use in the Foreign Branch…



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