Canada Large Queen 12 1/2c On Cover

Hello everyone, I recently discovered this in a collection from a solicitors archive I've purchased, dozens of overweight covers all from the 1850/60's, I know very little about canadian stamps, I wanted it for the GB stuff, can anyone tell me the rates and route etc,
such a shame about the corner.

thanks




Edit by Moderator: Title changed to match the stamp denomination

Up until the end of 1869, the single rate to England was 12 ½ cents via the Allan line.
Thus this could be a triple rate cover by this route.

For reference the single rate via the Cunard line was 15 cents.

Source: The Canada Posted letter guide: The Classic Period 1851-1902, 1996 edition.

Jan

Thanks for the reply, I shall read up on the Allan line, I'm guessing the blurry red cancel on the stamps will be London received handstamp, there is also a Leicester cds on reverse, the more to pay I'm guessing is Canadian so maybe underpaid?.

Sorry I meant liverpool for the red cancel

Not my area of expertise, but building on the orginal post and J2186's reply, Thinking out loud, I wonder if ...

Specifically seeing the circled "More To Pay" marking, if this was an attempt to fully pay a triple-rate cover at the 12.5 Allen Line rate, but it went on the Cunard Line instead and ths was short-paid by 7.5 cents. Are the exact mailing/receiving dates readable (along with the docketing) to cross-check against sailing dates to ID the ship and line this went on? Additional close-ups of all the cancels would be helpful.

This is also not my expertise either.

The cover needs more research. I read that it was posted in Georgetown CW (Ontario) on Feb 13 [6]9 and was docketed as received 1 March 1869.

You need to determine if this is consistent with transport via the Allan line.

The more to pay is an unusual marking. The amount more is, I believe, given by the black squiggle in the middle of the cover. I read it as 1/ (1 shilling), but I could well be wrong. If so, this might in fact be an underpaid quadruple rate cover. I am only guessing.

Let us know what you find out.

Jan

Between the U.S. and G.B. (and possibly by extension to Canada and G.B), the rate progression was 1x, 2x, 4x, 6x, ... (1/2 oz, 1 oz, 2 oz, 3, oz, ...). Other than a few short periods, there was no 3x rate. If the cover and contents weighed between 1 and 1.5 oz, the sender may have thought it was 3x the 1/2 oz rate. However, it was really the 4x 1-2 oz rate class.

This is backed up by the "more to pay" and the "2" on the cover. Partial payments were disallowed and treated as completely unpaid, meaning that the cover was sent with 2 shillings due from the recipient - the full 2 oz rate.

images of cancels

I found a series of short articles by Arfken and Leggett in BNA Topics on mail to England at this time period. (See Vol 51 #2 Whole #459 (Apr-Jun 1994) starting on page 20.) You can find a pdf version on the site below:

https://bnaps.org/hhl/hhl-index.php

A quick summary of what I saw there.

As of 1857, the British weights were indeed ½, 1, 2, 3, ounces (as chipg stated). However, this was changed as of January 1, 1866 to by the half ounce, so a 1-1½ ounce cover would be a triple rate.

At the post office's discretion, a letter intended for, say, the Allan line could be switched to the Cunard line (as surmised by John Becker). This would generate a more to pay in England. To determine if this happened, you need to determine which line carried the letter. To do this you need accurate dates and shipping tables.

Lastly, the Cunard line went via New York (so the extra cost is the US portion), while the Allan line went via Quebec in the summer, and Portland Me. in the winter (because of ice in the St. Lawrence).

The articles also give some further references.

Jan

thank you for all the replies, I've been sent down the rabbit hole with this one and read a ton of literature of Canada's large queens, I also found the census on large queen covers via the bnaps website which if im reading it correct lists only one triple rate 12.5c cover sent to UK known to the census, intrigue now has me so I've sent the cover today to the Vincent Graves Green Philatelic Research foundation for expertising and to learn more, ill update the topic when I get the cover back.