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Help Detecting Grill (Or Lack Thereof) On Classic US Stamps

 
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New Member
United States
4 Posts
Posted 07/08/2025   3:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add msmsa5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Is there a method of detecting if a grill has been flattened so the stamp appears as non-grilled? I have a potential Scott 125 that I cannot see a grill on. Used watermark solution (per a suggestion) and magnifying glass and no sign of grill. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Not really in a position to submit for expertizing and pay an exorbitant fee to find out it is a manipulated 114. Thanks.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6661 Posts
Posted 07/08/2025   3:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Can you scan the reverse side and post the scan?
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6530 Posts
Posted 07/08/2025   3:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If a grill is on a stamp and nobody can see it, is it really there? That is the question.


Where a security feature is absent on a different issue that is much rarer, the question becomes is the absence of that feature just a lack of visibility - maybe due to tampering - or was it never there? That is the relevant question.
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10633 Posts
Posted 07/08/2025   3:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
1869 grills were often light, and could get pressed out from use, or from being in an album for 150 years. The first thing to do is dip the stamp; instead of looking for a watermark, look for the grill. It will usually show up fairly easily.
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New Member
United States
4 Posts
Posted 07/08/2025   4:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add msmsa5 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I did "dip" it in watermark solution and no grill showed up. I saw there might be some enhancing I could do to photos to detect it, but I am not very savvy in that area and wouldn't even know what photo software has those kind of capabilities.
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New Member
United States
4 Posts
Posted 07/08/2025   4:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add msmsa5 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is backside.
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Moderator
Learn More...
United States
5094 Posts
Posted 07/08/2025   5:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You may have to take a photo at a slightly oblique angle. I'm not seeing it, and I don't know if it is possible to definitely tell the difference between no grill, and pressed-out grill.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
4314 Posts
Posted 07/08/2025   7:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It does not help that the 114 is listed as without grill, not to be confused with the no grill 125 reprint.

When dipping, the flash of a grill can be rather quick in the drying process if such was light and pressed out.
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10633 Posts
Posted 07/08/2025   10:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There is no chance at all of this stamp being a 125. Not with that impression.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
764 Posts
Posted 07/09/2025   08:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Germania to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
From "Opinions III" published by the Philatelic Foundation, article by Stanley Piller, page 58:

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New Member
United States
4 Posts
Posted 07/09/2025   8:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add msmsa5 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the UV tip. Based on that, it is a 114, but possibly one of the rare grill less ones. More than likely just a 114 with the grill pressed out. Thanks for the all the responses!!!
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