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Help With 1851? Stamp Less Cover From Nassau, NY To Ellwangen Germany

 
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Netherlands
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Posted 09/02/2025   10:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message






letter from Nassau, NY to Ellwangen Germany
send on dec 12, new york transitstamp on back dec 14 en recieved ellwangen 12 januari

i think the yeardate on backstamp is 1851, could be 1831

i think it states, very badly spelled via liverpool per steamer

i see black 24 crossed out and a black 29

i see a handstamp in red 12 1/2 or 1/4 (or another decimal?)

i see red handstamp" America over Bremen"

i see pinkish/purple inked:
53
8
17 1/2
Y

and red chark 1/5

can anyone make sense to me of all these markings and rates?
does the combination give us a better idea of year?

sorry I am not a "rate and route" person, hoping for help



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United States
762 Posts
Posted 09/02/2025   2:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Germania to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Ellwangen postmark was in use from 1845 to 1857, so 1851 is good.
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Netherlands
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Posted 09/02/2025   4:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for that Germania, we have the date confirmed!
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
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Posted 09/02/2025   4:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nassau, N.Y. is near Albany, this is not the county.
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Posted 09/02/2025   6:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The letter was sent pursuant to the postal treaty with Bremen. The letter was sent unpaid, so the New York post office debited Bremen 29˘ (black manuscript at top right) comprised of a 24˘ sea mail plus the 5˘ US inland.
At Bremen the post office struck the AMERICA UBER BREMEN exchange marking and converted the 29˘ to 10 11/12 guter groschen. There was a 1 1/3 ggr transit fee to Hanover resulting in the red 12 1/4 ggr handstamp at top center. This was equal to 53 kreuzer (manuscript center)
The Thurn & Taxis Post charged another 8 kr transit resulting in the "/8" under the "53" for a total of 61 kr. or 1 gulden 1 kr. (I think the red manuscript over the Nassau postmark is 1/1). There was an additional 4 kr local charge (the manuscript number that looks like a 7) for a grand total 65 kr. or 1 gulden 5 kr. written as a manuscript 1/5 (bottom center).

edited to correct typo in the amount of the rate handstamp
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Edited by SPQR - 09/03/2025 08:15 am
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Posted 09/02/2025   6:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The letter was probably carried by the Cunard Line America departing New York on December 17 or the Collins Line Arctic departing New York December 20
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Posted 09/03/2025   03:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
SPQR, this is wonderfull, thank you so mutch

one last question, did both the steamer options go to liverpool?
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Posted 09/03/2025   08:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
yes, both steamer options went to Liverpool; however, some closed-bag mail was put off at Queenstown (now Cobh) Ireland and carried by ship from there. I don't know off the top of my head if mail to Bremen was put off at Queenstown or Liverpool.
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Posted 09/03/2025   10:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
SPQR, thank you !

this confirms the very odd spelling of Liverpool at top of this letter
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