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Help Needed With An 1849 Folded Cover. Thanks

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Valued Member

United States
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Posted 09/28/2011   6:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add FERNIE1805 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello everyone, I came across this site, and hope someone here can give me more information on an old folded cover that I came across.
I was not sure if I am allowed to post photos because of my new membership. I have included a image codes of the cover. I hope I did this correctly. From what I can see this cover was mailed in 1849 from Newark NJ. , but I can't make out the destination. I found the kris crossed writing very interesting. Was this method of writing normal back then? I find it difficult to read. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you












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Rest in Peace
United States
7097 Posts
Posted 09/28/2011   6:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Manchester and Newark NJ. are the postmarks I believe. Very VERY cool cover. to the forum!
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United States
4788 Posts
Posted 09/28/2011   6:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kirks to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You're doing great and we LOVE scans of anything stamp related!

Keep 'em coming

KirkS
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
2277 Posts
Posted 09/28/2011   6:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nitrolures to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome Fernie! Its amazing the quality of some of the 1st post lately. The cover is great --The circular wear spot would have been from a wax seal used quite regularly back in the day. As for the criss cross writing I am guessing it would have been the reply letter was written sideways across the original posting likely due to lack of all things paper. It would take awhile to decipher but probably a very interesting read. My second guess would be part of the divinci code and embeded are the secrets to riches beyond your dreams. I'd go with my first guess.
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Canada
6525 Posts
Posted 09/28/2011   8:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The address in corner of the fifth picture is Owen Sound, Canada West, which is now Ontario. Could that be the sender?
Amazing cover by the way. I've heard of this criss cross thing before, to save paper.
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United States
2555 Posts
Posted 09/28/2011   9:16 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks to me like the cover went to Manchester, England not Joisey.
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United States
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Posted 09/28/2011   9:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tomiseksj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'd guess Manchester, New Jersey based on one day separation between postmark and receiving stamp.

And welcome Fernie1805 -- great stampless letter!
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6661 Posts
Posted 09/28/2011   9:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lovely Stampless folded letter. As mentioned earlier the Criss-Cross writing style was done to conserve paper
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Edited by stallzer - 09/28/2011 9:30 pm
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Posted 09/28/2011   10:06 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like the cover went to Higher Ardwick, Manchester, England. There could be another Newark other than in New Jersey.
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United States
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Posted 09/28/2011   11:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add FERNIE1805 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info, I really appreciate the help. This is the first crises-cross letter that I have seen. I will try and post my other older covers in the next few days. Thanks again everyone.
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Posted 09/29/2011   7:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tomiseksj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I stand corrected. Sinclair's read of the address suggests the Newark origination postmark may likely be from Newark-on-Trent, Nottinghamshire in the United Kingdom (about 90 miles from Manchester).
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Valued Member
United States
5 Posts
Posted 10/02/2011   12:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add FERNIE1805 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks again for the information. I find this letter very interesting with the criss-cross writing. Could this letter with this writing style and postmarks be considered even a little rare? Or pretty common? Any idea on the value?

Thanks again for any help provide.
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United States
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Posted 10/12/2011   6:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chipg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Cross writing, while interesting, probably brings down the value, rather than enhancing it. Mainly, it's because it's so hard for us to read. Guess that they had more practice back then.
There are still some things that are unclear about your cover:
- Both of the postmarks are British - that double-lined datestamp is classically British in nature
- What was the address on the cover? Can't read it from the scans
- What is the purpose of the two "Canada West" references on what would have been the back of the folded lettersheet.
- What was the rate? It is unusual to see no rate markings on a letter - could it be that a stamp has fallen off? By 1849, stamps in Great Britain were no longer a novelty.

Until these are discerned, it's hard to come up with a value. However, I wouldn't count on having steak for dinner based on this cover.
Chip
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United States
2555 Posts
Posted 10/12/2011   6:43 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Canada West addresses would have been on the inside of the folded letter.
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Valued Member
United States
5 Posts
Posted 10/12/2011   7:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add FERNIE1805 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Chip, Thank you for responding to my question. Here is close up image of the address, along with the other two addresses on the cover. Hopefully you can make those out. Thanks again for your input.





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United States
2948 Posts
Posted 10/12/2011   8:27 pm  Show Profile Check Rileysan's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Rileysan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Does the date in the CDS help give away the country? I ask because I would expect an English cover to say 10 May 1849 as apposed to May 10 1849. Was/is there that level of consistency in postage at that time?

Brian
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Edited by Rileysan - 10/12/2011 8:27 pm
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