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Is This Plate 12 20 An 18?

 
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Valued Member
United States
199 Posts
Posted 10/03/2011   10:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add otto to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I think I got another stamp from my sometimes favorite seller, Miss I.D. This stamp, described as a 20, arrived in the mail today:



I bid on it because it has the secret mark shown at A, meaning it is plate 11 or 12. And as plate 11 is rather rare, I'll go with 12. As I studied it under the loupe, I noticed some lines under the left scroll at B. Could it be the left ball? Looking at the plate 12 reliefs, "A" and "B" show the plumes to be rather shorter than shown in this example at C. And then the kicker, relief C, type I, "was practically the die design, all ornaments being complete except the left top corner which was minus its top line." (Neinken p486). And thus there is an explanation for the clipped line at D.

So, Russ, Winston, anybody, what do you think? Is it an 18?

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2547 Posts
Posted 10/04/2011   12:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Russ to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Otto, with the perforations cutting into the design I find them more difficult for me. I think it is a plate 12 Relief A Type II (emphasis on think). I am sure that Winston will definitely have the answer.
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Posted 10/04/2011   12:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Russ to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Otto, I am away from home and only working with what is on my laptop. Look at Siegel auction sale 1006 lot 1566. the top 2 stamps are relief A. In particular look at the bottom of the left stamp (pos 1).
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United States
199 Posts
Posted 10/04/2011   02:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add otto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for having a look, Russ. I've had a look at Siegel. Richard Doporto has 4 relief A's as well, all of which are closely cropped by the perfs on the left, unfortunately. Here's a detail from each:


Siegel lot 1566, detail on 1L12


Richard Doporto's 1c Plating Archive, detail on 4R12

While the two unfortunately fuzzy images do seem to plausibly have some remnant of the left ball, I would draw your attention to the parts of the design shown in the detail below that appear to be missing from the above:



Dang those perfs! I'd much rather have the top ornaments clipped than the bottom. But if that were the case, I wouldn't have the fun of deciphering this.
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Posted 10/04/2011   10:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Russ to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Otto, the last pic of your stamp seems to show 3 diagonag lines on the left ball which would be more in line with the Plate 12 relief C Type I. The perfs at the bottom should make it harder for me.
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Posted 10/04/2011   12:05 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The stamp can really be none other than a "C" relief, #18 from Plate 12.
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Valued Member
United States
199 Posts
Posted 10/04/2011   10:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add otto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your help and validation, Russ, Sinclair.

I think I've got it plated as 69R12. From Neinken


Ornament A detail showing horizontal line:


Ornment F-G detail showing vertical line:

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Posted 10/18/2011   06:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ken11 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
US stamp is always tricky to identify
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