Help ID Australian 4d Orange, Scott 31

I plan on looking more closely at these areas, as it does appear that some type of scratches may have occurred.

I think if you look closely at Don's grey-scale, you can see the upright "A" from the watermark. Seeing it as such, does this give it a good chance of being from a thin paper?

Hi Partime

I'm always available to lend assistance, a rare even a scarce stamp would be a nice addition to a collection that's for sure. You're doing quite well checking the stamp out.

I forgot to mention that my friend (he's the stamp specialist) did say that the flaw had a raised area where the colour is darker, this is not damaged paper but what he believes may be additional ink caused by the paper being raised by a worn plate.

And I agree that it was really good that the cancellation did not touch the flaw.

We'll see what he says today.

Rob

With Australian stamps printed on thin paper, you should be able to view the front from the back including the colour, here are a few examples of various thin paper thicknesses (the £2 stamp is very rare).

The scarce 2d red is also inverted, notice the upside down watermark.

Rob

Nice examples. I've looked for this before, and sometimes get mixed up with the aniline versions, but I'll keep trying. Thanks for posting.

Hi Partime

Your stamp has sparked more than a little interest. The specialist I showed the image of your stamp to couldn't find anything about it and admitted he has never seen a flaw like it before, but here is where it gets interesting.

It is no ordinary flaw and he has sent the image to Michael Drury, a renowned expert on George V side profiles. Drury is also an expertiser in that particular field and his certificates are recognised world-wide.

He has also sent an image to a few other expertisers as well. He said that it could take up to a week for a reply.

A stamp that builds this type of interest is definitely not common.

It's going to be an interesting ride, I hope the result comes back as scarce, very scarce or rare.

Rob

Again, I thank you for the work that you have done and for the other parties interest. When all is said and done, I will have to get some type of certificate, and it sounds like Drury is the preferred expertiser. I look forward to his and other comments on the scanned version.

Stamp collecting can still be a lot of fun, and it looks like there is the possibility of new finds out there all of the time. I'm certainly going to keep looking. Sooner or later, I'll add that Scarce / Rare item to my collection.

Hi Partime


The aniline example are quite scarce, I have a few but they are seldom offered for sale, and as they are quite sensitive to moisture (aniline is meant to stain the paper to prevent the stamps from being reused}, not many survive. It is impossible to find a used stamp soaked off paper to remain unstained.

Rob

Aniline stamps: The George VI has a bluish green shade and the George V deep scarlet & reverse showing the aniline deep scarlet and single crown watermark (the George V has a Drury certificate). And the George VI 10/- Robes is Reddish-Purple and has a slight aniline quality.



Ink inside and faintly showing outside of white border.


Drury Certificate

It's worth the trouble identifying that stamp; Michael Drury is the best bet, he is famously renowned for his extensive knowledge of the King George V definitive heads and his certificates are well sought after.

There are albums or even shoe boxes gathering dust that may hold very rare stamps.

Only recently I witnessed a good example of not knowing what one may have. I was at my local stamp shop buying a few packets of clear pages for one of my albums (never buy from the guy as he does not sell what I am interested in).

Anyway, this old couple walks in (both are about 80 years old), opens an old large envelope and says that the stamps belonged to her mother when she was 12 in 1911.

When the dealer opened the large envelope many old Victorian stamps fell out, all were used and all but one were common; when the dealer picked up the odd one out, both he and I recognised the stamp was extremely rare and worth just over $22,000.

He asked the couple how much do they think the collection was worth, they said about $20.00. He said "you're correct, that is exactly how much the collection amounts to, but this one is a little different, and asked the couple do they have an idea how much that stamp was worth?

The elderly woman said "about $50", he said "wrong" and I could see the woman was little embarrassed for making what she may have thought was a silly estimate; when he said that the stamp was worth just over $22,000, he asked if they interested in selling to sell the stamp to him, he would write out a cheque for $20,000 right there and then.

I was expecting a double coronary, they looked at each other surprisingly and took up the offer and walked out $20,000 richer.

True story.

We may not be so lucky, but who knows.

Rob

I just love those true stories. My new stamp probably isn't in the same category, but the entire lot of about 2000 Roos, KGV and other earlier stamps only cost me about US$200, and I've already located at least AUS$2000 in plate varieties and items that I was missing, so it's already been a good week, and I'm only half done searching. Once I've completed my search, maybe it will be time to offer a few Roo and KGV giveaways to spark more donations and interest in those areas.

Waiting anxiously for Drury and other feedback.

Nice work Rob.
Can we put you on the spot, and ask what the rare stamp was?
Look forward to the ongoing story of this stamp,
We can all share in the unfolding of the story.

Do not hold your breath while waiting for a comment from Michael Drury. It is most unlikely that he would offer more than saying it is an orange 4d KGV.

An expert who gives an opinion without having actually seen a stamp would be severely criticised by the industry - scans do not show the complete story. And as his income is derived from selling his opinion in a competitive market he would not survive long by giving freebies on the internet. It would be professional suicide.

These experts are hired by reputable auction houses because they give professional opinions backed by an array of scientific equipment and knowledge to which the ordinary collector does not have access. They are not going to risk that by giving off the cuff opinions. And to suggest that they would is in my opinion insulting.

I shall await Partime's scan of the reverse before I give any comment about this particular stamp.

Like rod222 I would also like to know the identity of the stamp as well as the identity of the dealer - he is very rare and if he is willing to dish out $20,000 cheques on the basis of a cursory glance he would be well worth knowing.

Regards
Frank

Frank,

I agree with your comments that a professional will not be giving an unpaid opinion as to the stamp. However, once I post some better front and back scans, I am at least hoping that one or two of the experts will come back with comments such as, "this appears to be an early form of xxx break and would have to be examined in hand for a more thorough opinion". I'm willing to wait another week and go from there.

Thanks to everyone for their comments so far. Happy stamping!

Hi Rod

I like being put on the spot.

The stamp I was referring to was a Western Australian 2d Swan (issued sometime in the mid to late 19th century). Printed in the wrong colour it was mauve instead of grey; valued at $20,000 plus.

Chris Ceremuga is a good friend of the dealer who bought the stamp, I speak to Chris whenever he visits the shop and the dealer had the stamp certified as extremely rare.

Rob

Langtounlad


You should never make comments you can never back up. I have spoken to Mr Drury numerous times over the phone and have gotten valuable information from him after I emailed him an image of the stamp. The specialist I speak of is a very good friend of Michael Drury and over the years Drury forwarded information to the specialist to give to the person inquiring, that I know for a fact, it isn't an opinion.


Many experts have given free information on viewing an image (providing the image is properly scanned for viewing), and to say they would be criticised by the industry, I assume you are referring to APTA, is not true.

The image of the stamp along with expert information from a specialist who is world renown in his field of Australian stamps is all that is needed for an investigation into the stamp in question to be commenced.


That is merely your opinion; it is not based on fact. I always send images of my stamp(s) providing the image is properly scanned to an expertiser and only send the actual stamp if I request a certificate or if the expertiser wants to further examine the specimen in fine detail.

Michael Drury is Australia's foremost expert of George V stamps and now-one in that field comes close to his expertise; and he has at numerous times given free his professional opinion, the only cost is in providing the certificate.

Chris Ceremuga who I know personally is a world expert on Commonwealth stamps and he also gives free professional opinion on stamps, he will invite you to his office if you're in Sydney, his certificates are sought world-wide; yet he will forward George V profile stamps to Michael Drury.


Chris Ceremuga actually is employed by an auction house, and freely gives his time and expertise to those who request it upon seeing the stamp either in image form or in front of him, and would expect a $50 fee for his certificate which is obvious, but the information is free, and you shouldn't get insulted by your baseless opinion.

I'm sure if the expertiser wants to view the actual stamp Partime would send it to him, providing he speak to the expertiser first before dispatching the stamp from the US to Australia.

The stamp is being viewed by a few experts in their field, the information goes back to my friend and he gives me the information and I give it to Partime, I would call that free, maybe not by you.

Take some advice do some research first before criticising me, I am always open for constructive criticism, I only state facts that I can prove.

My posts to Partime are truthful.



I advise Partime to wait until he hears the result from experts first, which will take about a week, and the results will not cost a cent.



I respect Rod's comments as we have numerous intelligent and off the cuff discussions, but you must understand that I did not say, nor should you assume that the dealer bought it at a cursory glance, he had one other a few short years ago and he showed me the stamp then, and a stamp such as the one we viewed then is not one that can be forgotten easily.

The stamp being a WA mauve (wrong colour and extremely rare) 2d printed in the mid to late 19th century is valued in some catalogues at $18,000-$19,000, the actual price is $20,000 plus.

I'm not a dealer, and I knew straight away what the stamp was, just by what you call a cursory glance, and if the dealer didn't pay for the stamp I definitely would, and yes, I can afford to buy a $20,000 stamp.

The reason why I will not reveal the names of the specialist or dealer is because many people who happen upon this site or novice stamp collectors will be taking time away by constantly calling these people.

When the result arrives and if the stamp needs to be expertised, I will forward by email to Partime all the contact details of the interested people and how to contact them by phone, email and other means of contact.

Rob