Help Needed To Identify Grill

Hi,

Again, these stamps are not mine, I am just helping another one.

I do not know much about grills in the US stamps, but I am aware that such thing exists. Well, here I have 2 stamps with grills. Are you able to identify them for me? Or if you cannot identify them, can you exclude any of the Scott listed options. If no consensus is reached, I assume them to be the cheapest grill.

The first one is 1861 2 cent Jackson with grill.




The second one is 1861 12 cent Washington with grill.




I'm aware that the second one has someone's count of the grill written behind. However, as I don't know whose, I don't know if I should trust is or not.

Thank you for your help in advance.

Unfortunately Retroreveal doesn't seem to help here much.

2 cent Jackson:



12 cent Washington:



Edit: typo corrected

The 12 cent probably is a 98, an F grill based on these images. Dip the stamp in lighter fluid, that should make the watermark more visible. In both cases.

Sorry, I don't quite understand what you talk about watermark. To my knowledge these stamps have no watermarks and the grill is not watermark, either.

Thank you for your suggestion of Scott #98 and F grill.

It has nothing to do with watermarks, but putting the stamp in watermark fluid will bring up the grill so it can be seen better.

OK. Regarding the Scott number, #98 in my 2016 Scott US Specialized is 15 cent Lincoln, so, that is something it looks highly unlikely to be.

I'm not sure if I can get anywhere easily watermark fluid. Is there any reason against using water with these stamps?

Kuikka, just curious here, and I make no assumptions or judgments.
I would love to see the three areas here that I've marked with a better image:



The topmost square I added looks like vertical points.

The other two appear to me, like they possibly could be horizontal.


There is another way to enhance the grill, and there are those on this board that will agree with this, and there are those who will disagree. I learned the technique from Bill Weiss, who passed away a few years ago and was a giant in U.S. Philately, and have used it many times. You scribble from a soft lead pencil on a piece of paper, then rub a finger onto the carbon on the paper and then transfer the carbon to the grill by rubbing your finger on the grill. I've bought many grills that had this done, and have never thought twice about it, and have used this technique and have never thought twice. Others may say that it is enhancing or damaging the stamp.

I'll leave that decision up to your friend as to whether to try this or not.

IF that grill has 14 columns and the points are horizontal, it could be a "Z" grill. I don't think that it is because of the box I added at the top. It is most probably a "E" grill, because I don't see the pimple on Jackson's cheek on the right side of the stamp. The "F" Grill would have a pimple in the middle of the cheek, because it was made from a different relief than the "E" Grill.

The only difference between an "E" Grill (#87) and the experimental "Z" Grill (#85B) is whether the points are horizontal or not. Horizontal- "Z" grill and congratulations. Vertical- "E" grill and still a nice stamp, but with the UR corner the way it is, not much value.

Hope this is helpful, and again, I would expect other responses based on the use of the carbon.

Ray

Article on using grills, including the carbon treatment, can be found here https://stampsmarter.org/learning/I...8Grills.html
Don

If the 12c is an F grill it would be a 97, not 98. I can't see the grills well enough on either to count the columns. Counting the columns of grills is the best way to identify which grill it is in most cases. There are a couple of ways to help with that. The best I think is to hold the stamp sideways under a light so that it creates shadows on the grill points. This will usually make it a lot easier to see details. There are other methods but I would try that as it is harmless to the stamp. Also check out https://stampsmarter.org/learning/I...8Grills.html
which gives you the simplest wasy of identifying most grills.

Thank you 51studebaker for article. I need to read it more carefully.

Rey.mac,

Thank you for viewing the scans carefully. Unfortunately, the scans I made are with full resolution of my scanner. So, I cannot make them larger. The resolution was not reduced to be posted on the board.

Rlsny,

Thank you for the hint of using horizontal line and counting the columns. I will try that.

Here are the pictures of horizontally lit stamps. Are these easier for ID?

The lighting isnt making the grill show better at all. It isnt a Z grill. Too many you can see that are vertical.

Those are much better - they both look like F grills to me. Scott 93 and 97.