Likely Victim Of The British Cartel

Hello,

I have come across this forum when I finally did a search on some ebay seller ID's that arose my suspicions, sadly too late for me. The ebay seller names are tenshillings, superdeal5, re-entry, stamp.shop, mint.stamp etc.

I am a novice stamp collector with some money to spend and it looks like some of these money could have been wasted on ebay scams by the seller names mentioned above. I have become suspicious when listings I either missed out on or decided to pass on resurfaced a week or two later under a different seller name. When I did a google search on these seller names, I arrived here.

I am sure ebay has little to no interest to curtail this, but any expert advice as to what recourse do I have to recoup at least some of the money would be welcome. Also any advice as to how to alert ebay on this would also be appreciated.

I guess I got what I deserve for not being more mindful but I would at least like to do something about this in the 11th hour if at all possible.

I do plan to have the stamps already received expertised asap to assess the extent of the damage.

Many thanks.

Carefully read http://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/let...1403720.html

dbocca,
Welcome to the forum. Sorry that you have been taken, it sucks not only for you but also for our hobby. Sadly he is not the only seller who is taking advantage of others and as your post states; education is key. Education not only with the material but also becoming well versed in ebay's 'loop holes' and how unethical sellers use them to their advantage. As you have found out, this can range from simply trolling for suckers all the way to outright fraud.

When we hear or read about some fantastic deal that someone got online it can feed our courage for taking buying risks. But we should never underestimate the extent that some sellers will go to exploit our risk taking and system short-comings. ebay's rating system is a good example. While some sellers try hard to use it correctly, buyers need to look beyond the surface. For example, every buyer should look closely at the sellers name ID history before making any purchase on ebay. If you see something like this...be wary.


Ask yourself, why would a seller want to go through so many name changes? Sure, a seller might want to change his name once or twice over the years, but why build a good reputation and then potentially lose the good will and your customer base by frequently changing names?

Unfortunately trying to use a sellers 'Top Rating' score or number of feedbacks is also full of pitfalls. It is far too easy to simply to use ebay's system, policies, and procedures to rip-off buyers. Any thief or crook can buy an existing Top Rated account in minutes online. This gives them apparent instant 'creditability' if a person does not look at these issues critically.

There are some great sellers online, the trick is to find them but don't expect that they will be letting good material slip through their fingers. Quality sellers know what they have, what it is worth, and in the vast amount of times will identify it correctly. And they certainly won't be using 40—50 accounts to move material between them until they can land an unknowing buyer.

The importance of your post cannot be understated, becoming a well informed buyer exceeds beyond simply knowing the material. Just as we have to research the material we have to research who we are dealing with; look for warning signs. Those sellers who bristle at buyers who ask questions (or even refuse to reply), sellers who list high dollar material but don't bother to offer high quality images (including backs of stamps), sellers who have multiple name changes, sellers who say in their listings 'some material may be expertly repaired' are all potentially danger signs. Don't just look at a Top Rating or the number of feedbacks as sign of confidence, don't count of being able to successfully return item as a fallback position.

Start slow with a new seller, don't drop big money with a seller until you are satisfied with previous buys. Dip and closely inspect everything bought and send items out for expertzation. Use sites like this forum and Stamp Smarter to arm yourself with knowledge; knowledge is the only ammunition in the war against bad sellers.
Don

You placed a bid on a item and won it.
How were you taken??

dbocca: sorry to hear about your experience. In future, you might want to add the APS Stamp Store to the venues where you make purchases (APS = American Philatelic Society http://stamps.org ). Non-members can now buy from the Stamp Store and APS stands behind its sales.

@Don: Thank you so much for your reply and useful information. I am trying to force some returns on a few items as they were purchased in December but I am not optimistic this will be enforced by ebay.

@Kevin: In essence, you are correct. In my case, "being taken" means when the items I thought I was bidding on based on seller's description end up being not as described and of substantially lesser value. It seems this is most often the case with the seller ID's mentioned here. I will have to have the stamps appraised but signs are not good given what I have been reading in the past two days.

A lot of complaints about the "cartel" focus on shill bidding. If the items simply aren't as described, you should be able to raise a claim via ebay.

or when in doubt don't buy them

GeoffHa,
That assumes that you can return them to the location you purchased them from. To make matters worse, you also have to quickly turn around any certs so you can work with the seller in a timely fashion. And in this case, you also have to deal with several different divisions of ebay since they intentionally obfuscates international legal jurisdictions. Lastly, crossing swords with this seller can result in some very bad things happening, including things like having fake FaceBook and other web sites posted made to loo like they are made by you.
So I do not think that simply relying upon a return policy is the best approach. This might work for a typical seller but if you are dealing with a convicted felon all bets are off. Unlike APS Store, ebay does indeed have known convicted felons as sellers. (Like they can't figure out how to check a criminal records but at the same time try to convince buyers to have plenty of confidence in a return policy.)
Don
Don

if you put a scan of what you got you might be able to get more info into what you have, it might not be too bad most of what they sell is real just shilled up to be overpriced

dbocca....please post the ebay item #

I'm kinda with Kevin on this one. Just because you found out who the seller was you believe you were automatically taken ? I realize there are some questionable sales with these people but I swim a different direction then the rest here on what the cartel is really up to and I don't think their full time deal is shill bidding. If the item is not as described then you can certainly go through ebay & paypal for a refund but if you chooses to have the item/s expertised don't expect to be reimbursed for that cost.

stallzer,
What would you do when, after asking to return, the seller goes of on a vendetta and becomes retaliatory? For example, he uses one of his any other names, buys a few items from you, and then claims you mis-described the items or never received them? And of course then leaves you negative feedbacks. Or perhaps he instead uses the infamous 'ripoff report' site to flame your business and reputation without any basis?
In my opinion it may be better to just lick your wounds and learn from the lesson; asking for a return may be much more painful then just moving on with some sellers.
Don

51studebaker....reallY??
I think they are more interested in selling stamps.

FYI....I purchased a stamp from "them".
Asked to return it.
My money was IMMEDIATELY refunded....(by "them")
THEN I was instructed to return the stamp.
Very simple...

The only stamps I bought from them turned out to be regummed. I returned them and got a refund. That incident and bad stamps from five other sellers at the same time convinced me that buying for resale on ebay was not going to work out very well. Please read my earlier post again. PayPal will go back six months in some cases. As a seller I don't believe this is fair, but it may be useful if a certificate is required. Either PSE or PSAG can turn most certificates around quickly usually less than a month.

Also, to protect yourself from PayPal, use a credit card to fund the purchase. PayPal hates this, but your can go back to the credit card issuer for a refund. You will get probably a refund, right or wrong. As a seller, I would expect to have the stamps returned. I would block any buyer who asked for a refund without returning the stamps. The ebay process normally blocks refunds if the stamps are not returned, but there are exceptions and loopholes in their system.

Paypal will dispute charge back to CC company and you can have your CC account closed if you wrongfully use this option. It's happen to a pain in the .. on a computer forum that try to still other members with false charge back.